Dear George
I can understand the situation u r in to. In my opinion it is never unethical to start something to save your indirect expenses and keep your workplace hassle free and make the employees think that it is also a part of their duty not leave the lights on while leaving, keeping their workplace clean and so on we are discussing about but at the same time the punishment can be in other ways like giving less increment while appraisal period, no promotions etc.
We can also think otherwise by motivating the employees who are well in manner and are following all the lines laid by management. give them proper attention, present them to the others during some general trainings or discussions. appraise them better, highlight them through best employee, best section or best department.
Keep taking some discussion sessions with employees to know what they think about it or what they are planning to do next because apart from attrition it can anytime lead to a dispute.
Regards
From India, Delhi
11I can understand the situation u r in to. In my opinion it is never unethical to start something to save your indirect expenses and keep your workplace hassle free and make the employees think that it is also a part of their duty not leave the lights on while leaving, keeping their workplace clean and so on we are discussing about but at the same time the punishment can be in other ways like giving less increment while appraisal period, no promotions etc.
We can also think otherwise by motivating the employees who are well in manner and are following all the lines laid by management. give them proper attention, present them to the others during some general trainings or discussions. appraise them better, highlight them through best employee, best section or best department.
Keep taking some discussion sessions with employees to know what they think about it or what they are planning to do next because apart from attrition it can anytime lead to a dispute.
Regards
From India, Delhi
Dear All,
Many thanks for all the wonderful replies and now I am in position to view this situation from a different angle.
In our company ,employees are very disciplined.Due to this 500 rupees fine for anything expected and unexpected ,our work atmosphere is of fear.This is true even in the case of General Manager.And here the people,who impose fine on employees are office assistant girls,who report to the owner.Those people are not educated.They go and inform anything and everything to the owner without even thinking of the reason behind that.The office assistant girls are uneducated.
I know the reason behind the fines are to maintain discipline in the company and to maintain the company property.And I always try my level best to present these rules and regulations to the new joiners in the most polished way.But once they are into the company,once they understand the reality,they naturally become demotivated.
Here managers are not the decision makers.Even they are the victims of this.So the entire staff has a kind of hatred towards the management.
What I feel is,we can impose fine.But not at the first time.Because in this company nobody violates rules intentionally.It happens very rarely.I feel our management should implement this fine system if an employee repeat the same instance for 3 times in a month.
Then I think we will have a better work environment.There is no proper delegation of decision making power.Only one person makes the decision,that is by listening to the the office assistants.
But my duty is convince our employees about all these in the most polished way and to reduce the attrition rate.
Thanks&Regards,
Ms.George
From India, Bangalore
Many thanks for all the wonderful replies and now I am in position to view this situation from a different angle.
In our company ,employees are very disciplined.Due to this 500 rupees fine for anything expected and unexpected ,our work atmosphere is of fear.This is true even in the case of General Manager.And here the people,who impose fine on employees are office assistant girls,who report to the owner.Those people are not educated.They go and inform anything and everything to the owner without even thinking of the reason behind that.The office assistant girls are uneducated.
I know the reason behind the fines are to maintain discipline in the company and to maintain the company property.And I always try my level best to present these rules and regulations to the new joiners in the most polished way.But once they are into the company,once they understand the reality,they naturally become demotivated.
Here managers are not the decision makers.Even they are the victims of this.So the entire staff has a kind of hatred towards the management.
What I feel is,we can impose fine.But not at the first time.Because in this company nobody violates rules intentionally.It happens very rarely.I feel our management should implement this fine system if an employee repeat the same instance for 3 times in a month.
Then I think we will have a better work environment.There is no proper delegation of decision making power.Only one person makes the decision,that is by listening to the the office assistants.
But my duty is convince our employees about all these in the most polished way and to reduce the attrition rate.
Thanks&Regards,
Ms.George
From India, Bangalore
Dear Ms. George
Thanks for your response and providing us more information.
I can understand your situation and the company in which you work. I am not surprised to know that almost uneducated girls designated as office assistant spy on the employees and pass on the information to the OWNERS.
Unfortunately, that is how most of the companies in private sector in India operate; and I have been highlighting it most of the time. The Companies Act in India provides for very easy requirements for a company to be incorporated. Many owner-run small businesses just manage to get themselves registered as Companies - either Pvt. Ltd. or Public companies. Many of them keep on running their businesses as petty shop owners; devoid of any corporate ethics, culture or mindset.
It is difficult to imagine and accept that highly qualified, professional person would be able to conform to the culture and ways of work of such companies for a long time. No wonder, the attrition rate is so high in these companies, which, unfortunately, does not make a difference to the so-called owners.
Warm regards.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Thanks for your response and providing us more information.
I can understand your situation and the company in which you work. I am not surprised to know that almost uneducated girls designated as office assistant spy on the employees and pass on the information to the OWNERS.
Unfortunately, that is how most of the companies in private sector in India operate; and I have been highlighting it most of the time. The Companies Act in India provides for very easy requirements for a company to be incorporated. Many owner-run small businesses just manage to get themselves registered as Companies - either Pvt. Ltd. or Public companies. Many of them keep on running their businesses as petty shop owners; devoid of any corporate ethics, culture or mindset.
It is difficult to imagine and accept that highly qualified, professional person would be able to conform to the culture and ways of work of such companies for a long time. No wonder, the attrition rate is so high in these companies, which, unfortunately, does not make a difference to the so-called owners.
Warm regards.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
• Having rules of discipline and decorum in a organization and expecting employees to follow rules, keep their office presentable, clean, productive etc. is perfectly legal and ethical
• Punishing and penalizing those employees, who are not following rules is also legal and ethical
• Only question to be asked here is whether penalty / punishment given is proportionate to the violations/abuse. (for example for parking vehicle in no parking area you can be fined say upto Rs. 300 only and you can not be put behind bars.)
• I do not feel that, rules imposed are hard or impossible to follow, may be penalty / fine of Rs. 500 is not proportionate to violations. But again some rules are dependant on situation and environment. For example in case a employee is found smoking in a Petrochemical Plant, he can be sacked permanently from the job. Since his irresponsible act of smoking can put his and others life in danger and can also cause damage to assets and property worth crores.
• Such hefty fines could be one of the minor reason for high attrition. The real reasons must be different and needs to be probed.
• It is also important to know how exactly rules and policies are administered and implemented.
From India, Pune
• Punishing and penalizing those employees, who are not following rules is also legal and ethical
• Only question to be asked here is whether penalty / punishment given is proportionate to the violations/abuse. (for example for parking vehicle in no parking area you can be fined say upto Rs. 300 only and you can not be put behind bars.)
• I do not feel that, rules imposed are hard or impossible to follow, may be penalty / fine of Rs. 500 is not proportionate to violations. But again some rules are dependant on situation and environment. For example in case a employee is found smoking in a Petrochemical Plant, he can be sacked permanently from the job. Since his irresponsible act of smoking can put his and others life in danger and can also cause damage to assets and property worth crores.
• Such hefty fines could be one of the minor reason for high attrition. The real reasons must be different and needs to be probed.
• It is also important to know how exactly rules and policies are administered and implemented.
From India, Pune
are u running an business organisation or a kindergarton school?
your boss is adopting all ways to keep the morale low.
His attitude is a psychiatric case.and needs treatment.
the employees must be feeling like having a nagging mother in law
anyway to the solution,
1. it is a fact that both the employees and your boss do not have much job.and both are trying to find faults with each other for the failure of the company.
2.adopt reward schemes rather than punishment scheme for improving morale and discipline
3.tell the employees what to do instead of what not to do
4 find ways to keep the boss busy with more important issues to the organisation instead of working like a peeping tom
5 the boss is busy with attidunal problems of employees he will end deeply immersed in that. but no good job can come out of it. hehas forgotten that
u can buy a man's presence but not his heart into the job.
From India, New Delhi
your boss is adopting all ways to keep the morale low.
His attitude is a psychiatric case.and needs treatment.
the employees must be feeling like having a nagging mother in law
anyway to the solution,
1. it is a fact that both the employees and your boss do not have much job.and both are trying to find faults with each other for the failure of the company.
2.adopt reward schemes rather than punishment scheme for improving morale and discipline
3.tell the employees what to do instead of what not to do
4 find ways to keep the boss busy with more important issues to the organisation instead of working like a peeping tom
5 the boss is busy with attidunal problems of employees he will end deeply immersed in that. but no good job can come out of it. hehas forgotten that
u can buy a man's presence but not his heart into the job.
From India, New Delhi
Dear Mr. George
Monetary fine is directly attached with emotion of employee, arrange it in different stage e.g. first memo ( may be 3 time) than will be fine, or you can implement punishment in different way.
monetary fine is a effective tool, but first realize the employee that after giving an opportunity by management, monetary fine imposed.
From India, Ahmadabad
Monetary fine is directly attached with emotion of employee, arrange it in different stage e.g. first memo ( may be 3 time) than will be fine, or you can implement punishment in different way.
monetary fine is a effective tool, but first realize the employee that after giving an opportunity by management, monetary fine imposed.
From India, Ahmadabad
Dear Ms. George,
I am back again after a long time into this discussion. I careful read all the debate our able Fraternity could suggest. Thanks a lot for all those who participated in this debate (both, those who voted "for" as well as "against"). It is all individual's interest how we look at things.
But your Office Assistants would be highly motivated/engaged/satisfied employees in your organisation. Your proprietor, has grown well upto engaging 10,000+ people with the help of these office assistants. Genius, introduce some percentage of commission to these office assistants for every seize they make from the employees, so that the organisation runs well. Let us here concentrate on earning on this "Punishment business" unless bringing some innovative ideas/business. Wonder, what your GM (I believe even they are being fined, if I am not wrong) would remember? His entire working hour would go in managing his mobile phone, and remembering to confine to his room and to put-off/turn-off the lights during exit.
However, You or others agree or deny, but have my point, that I am not satisfied with the style of management at your end.
Anyhow, wish your proprietor a very good luck for his further prosperiety into the "Punishment Business". I am sure he will never change to softer sides.
From India, Madras
I am back again after a long time into this discussion. I careful read all the debate our able Fraternity could suggest. Thanks a lot for all those who participated in this debate (both, those who voted "for" as well as "against"). It is all individual's interest how we look at things.
But your Office Assistants would be highly motivated/engaged/satisfied employees in your organisation. Your proprietor, has grown well upto engaging 10,000+ people with the help of these office assistants. Genius, introduce some percentage of commission to these office assistants for every seize they make from the employees, so that the organisation runs well. Let us here concentrate on earning on this "Punishment business" unless bringing some innovative ideas/business. Wonder, what your GM (I believe even they are being fined, if I am not wrong) would remember? His entire working hour would go in managing his mobile phone, and remembering to confine to his room and to put-off/turn-off the lights during exit.
However, You or others agree or deny, but have my point, that I am not satisfied with the style of management at your end.
Anyhow, wish your proprietor a very good luck for his further prosperiety into the "Punishment Business". I am sure he will never change to softer sides.
From India, Madras
In the big companies that I have worked at,employees phones did ring.Employees did leave papers on the desk.But deadlines of overseas projects where met.Increments happen.And there was no fine for such petty things.500 rupee fine...forget about it.
From India, Ahmadabad
From India, Ahmadabad
Ms. George,
I find, your company's rules very genuine and logical. Whats wrong if company says to maintain silence by keep phones silent or forbiding employees to sit in others cabins or going on floors which are restricted. And the habits of leaving papers at desk is actualy a bad habit. This could be for maintaining confideniality, office decorum and discipline.
Switching the lights off after usage is actually a global motto, whats wrong if you try to save energy. Common all this is immature behaviour.
Are these too difficult to be followed by employees?? Why they are refusing?
Please note that the fines will be imposed only if they do not follow these guidelines.
Your management would have decided after observing that employees are intentionally breaking all the rules and guidelines.
And if the nature of your company's business could also be responsible like if there is some Research & development is on going..
You can make your employee understand, but for that you have to be coninced about it.
Regards,
Rashee
From India, Delhi
I find, your company's rules very genuine and logical. Whats wrong if company says to maintain silence by keep phones silent or forbiding employees to sit in others cabins or going on floors which are restricted. And the habits of leaving papers at desk is actualy a bad habit. This could be for maintaining confideniality, office decorum and discipline.
Switching the lights off after usage is actually a global motto, whats wrong if you try to save energy. Common all this is immature behaviour.
Are these too difficult to be followed by employees?? Why they are refusing?
Please note that the fines will be imposed only if they do not follow these guidelines.
Your management would have decided after observing that employees are intentionally breaking all the rules and guidelines.
And if the nature of your company's business could also be responsible like if there is some Research & development is on going..
You can make your employee understand, but for that you have to be coninced about it.
Regards,
Rashee
From India, Delhi
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