Emotions would always lead u to losses if the ingredient of intelligence is missing in it. Have Emotional Intelligence
From India, Delhi
23From India, Delhi
Well to the concerned HR Persons
one request, if you could care to search in cite hr, there has been a thread before wherein one employee a HR herself was stunned when asked questions by the HR of company about personal things, like marriage, and when you plan to have kids. And all our HR friends supported her and told that HR should not ask such type of personal questions. So ............ as per your point imagine yourself being as an employee joining a company, and your parents are looking match for you, so in this world as such nothing is predicted, so you cant tell your company even if asked about marriage that when you are getting married, coz that even you dont know, but within two months of joining you get match and all set to get married, then what will you do, as per the rituals and customs your religion you need to take that much leave, and unless your parents, elders consent you cant cut short on customs, India is land of diversity and people follow customs very strongly. So in your case, your customs might have not taken much time, and so the 10 days would have been ample as in your case, but to expect every employee to take only 10 days for their marriage just bcoz u didnt took more than 10 days is dont know what word to use ;-)....
The girl in question might have any one or more or any other such reason which even I dont know coz im not marriage expert ;-)
She might be demanding leaves, coz her native, or her hubbys native must be too far away, and the travelling time will take long, consider the rituals which she would be following, after marriage she might even be visiting some temples of their family dieties, which might be far away, , or honeymooning and if honemooning abroad, its wise to spend atleast a good time,, ;-) .. so considering all those things she might have put up the total leave as 45 days.
And other question is the rumour, that she might shift abroad, etc etc. That you cant stop her from doing. And even in future if you conduct such interviews wherin u ask candidates about their marriage, children plans, its unethical as you would be discriminating and not following an equal opportunity method.
And one general thing, even marriage and kids planning is not specific in case of employees, like they even might not be knowing when exactly they may get married, so these are just unexpected things. Also you will need to ask one female Hr for female employees to ask abt their marriage, honeymoon plans, and kids plans and male HR for males, and in some religions if they find ur question absured, u may even end up getting thrashed up by the frnds and relatives of the employee, as during interview u were too frank and asking absured questions , that may also happen, coz its INDIA, and even if this happens society will blame you... so dont think that its easy as cup of tea. And dear friend, imagine urself going to interview and getting questions on personal things. Who will tolerate these things. And always I encourage my friends to be like a bull and just nod their head to the Hr person when they take interview, coz the Hr will just understand the nOd, and get fooled, and once u join, throw tantrums on HR ;-) .. by getting married, nad having kids n taking maternity leaves all at cost of our dear company.... coz the company also belongs to me as it belongs to u,,, hehehe. another generalisation which u made is all ur employees getting married,, dont imagine all comming one by one, n giving u marriage card n going on 45 days leave n u alone sitting in office doing all work. Coz employees are going to get married, after marriage some may leave, some may leave coz of unexpected problems, these all are A PART OF UR LIFE< AND UR PAID TO MANAGE THIS,, UR PAID TO MANAGE THE SITUATION AND NOT TAKE THE HARSH STEPS AND FORCE EMPLOYEES TO CUT SHORT ON LEAVES, MARRIAGES,,
Understand the situation fully and take suitable decision. No doubt ur the Boss in this case, but use some sense and take decision. And this situation will keep on arriving in future with all companies, and all organisations. And the HR cant do anything to avoid these type of situations, rahter these situations are normal, as considering the pressure and long working hours (which even HR inspite of knowing the illeffects of working long cant do anything to put a strict 8 hr schedule, and is just concerned with his pay, turning blind eye to both their nd employees long working hrs, which give rise to many problems which even u known no need to explain to u)
well durga regarding ur latest post give me some time to read it
From India, Pune
one request, if you could care to search in cite hr, there has been a thread before wherein one employee a HR herself was stunned when asked questions by the HR of company about personal things, like marriage, and when you plan to have kids. And all our HR friends supported her and told that HR should not ask such type of personal questions. So ............ as per your point imagine yourself being as an employee joining a company, and your parents are looking match for you, so in this world as such nothing is predicted, so you cant tell your company even if asked about marriage that when you are getting married, coz that even you dont know, but within two months of joining you get match and all set to get married, then what will you do, as per the rituals and customs your religion you need to take that much leave, and unless your parents, elders consent you cant cut short on customs, India is land of diversity and people follow customs very strongly. So in your case, your customs might have not taken much time, and so the 10 days would have been ample as in your case, but to expect every employee to take only 10 days for their marriage just bcoz u didnt took more than 10 days is dont know what word to use ;-)....
The girl in question might have any one or more or any other such reason which even I dont know coz im not marriage expert ;-)
She might be demanding leaves, coz her native, or her hubbys native must be too far away, and the travelling time will take long, consider the rituals which she would be following, after marriage she might even be visiting some temples of their family dieties, which might be far away, , or honeymooning and if honemooning abroad, its wise to spend atleast a good time,, ;-) .. so considering all those things she might have put up the total leave as 45 days.
And other question is the rumour, that she might shift abroad, etc etc. That you cant stop her from doing. And even in future if you conduct such interviews wherin u ask candidates about their marriage, children plans, its unethical as you would be discriminating and not following an equal opportunity method.
And one general thing, even marriage and kids planning is not specific in case of employees, like they even might not be knowing when exactly they may get married, so these are just unexpected things. Also you will need to ask one female Hr for female employees to ask abt their marriage, honeymoon plans, and kids plans and male HR for males, and in some religions if they find ur question absured, u may even end up getting thrashed up by the frnds and relatives of the employee, as during interview u were too frank and asking absured questions , that may also happen, coz its INDIA, and even if this happens society will blame you... so dont think that its easy as cup of tea. And dear friend, imagine urself going to interview and getting questions on personal things. Who will tolerate these things. And always I encourage my friends to be like a bull and just nod their head to the Hr person when they take interview, coz the Hr will just understand the nOd, and get fooled, and once u join, throw tantrums on HR ;-) .. by getting married, nad having kids n taking maternity leaves all at cost of our dear company.... coz the company also belongs to me as it belongs to u,,, hehehe. another generalisation which u made is all ur employees getting married,, dont imagine all comming one by one, n giving u marriage card n going on 45 days leave n u alone sitting in office doing all work. Coz employees are going to get married, after marriage some may leave, some may leave coz of unexpected problems, these all are A PART OF UR LIFE< AND UR PAID TO MANAGE THIS,, UR PAID TO MANAGE THE SITUATION AND NOT TAKE THE HARSH STEPS AND FORCE EMPLOYEES TO CUT SHORT ON LEAVES, MARRIAGES,,
Understand the situation fully and take suitable decision. No doubt ur the Boss in this case, but use some sense and take decision. And this situation will keep on arriving in future with all companies, and all organisations. And the HR cant do anything to avoid these type of situations, rahter these situations are normal, as considering the pressure and long working hours (which even HR inspite of knowing the illeffects of working long cant do anything to put a strict 8 hr schedule, and is just concerned with his pay, turning blind eye to both their nd employees long working hrs, which give rise to many problems which even u known no need to explain to u)
well durga regarding ur latest post give me some time to read it
From India, Pune
Dear Prathima...
I appreciate your concerns regarding whether HR Exceutives can extract correct personal information regarding marriage and other personal goals of an employee...but I would beg to differ...these questions though personal in nature needs to be adressed carefully else the entire recruitment process would turn out to be futile..look at how the Hr executive is facing a problem today..just because during interview these questions were avoided...asking such questions does not mean that you pose direct questions like when do you plan to get married..start a family etc..but you can always lead employees...and ask questions like what are their views on the correct marriagable age for women and then ask the "dreaded personal question"...there are ways and means to ask and extract correct information to many questions..many times just studying the body language of the interviee we can judge whether he/she is lying or not...
When I used to appear for interviews as a Fresher there were many HR managers who used to ask questions relating to marriage and I as an Hr professional completly understand the logic behind asking such questions....because I realise how much of time money and efforts are spent on recruiting one candidate..and it would be a complete futile recruitment process if the same employee could not even be retained....
I hope we all as HR professionls we realise the gravity to asking such "dreaded" questions..to avoid later problems...
Regards
Dny Pdvl
From India, Ahmadabad
I appreciate your concerns regarding whether HR Exceutives can extract correct personal information regarding marriage and other personal goals of an employee...but I would beg to differ...these questions though personal in nature needs to be adressed carefully else the entire recruitment process would turn out to be futile..look at how the Hr executive is facing a problem today..just because during interview these questions were avoided...asking such questions does not mean that you pose direct questions like when do you plan to get married..start a family etc..but you can always lead employees...and ask questions like what are their views on the correct marriagable age for women and then ask the "dreaded personal question"...there are ways and means to ask and extract correct information to many questions..many times just studying the body language of the interviee we can judge whether he/she is lying or not...
When I used to appear for interviews as a Fresher there were many HR managers who used to ask questions relating to marriage and I as an Hr professional completly understand the logic behind asking such questions....because I realise how much of time money and efforts are spent on recruiting one candidate..and it would be a complete futile recruitment process if the same employee could not even be retained....
I hope we all as HR professionls we realise the gravity to asking such "dreaded" questions..to avoid later problems...
Regards
Dny Pdvl
From India, Ahmadabad
Dear all,
Lest go through following test on the approach recommended by most of the members:
Whom do you hire? Whether employee as person or his services with skills and competencies?
What authority (Employer) HRM has to command the personal/social life agenda of any employee?
Can Employment regulates personal wish and will of employee outside his employment terms and conditions?
Status of employment whether permanent/ temporary/ causal/ substitute dosen't matter and is a secondary issue when it comes to honoring employee’s rights and employers commitment towards social responsibility and humanity?
What authority employer has got to deny the annual vacation or right of vacation to utilize for social or personal cause?
Whether employer takes responsibility to indemnify the loss account of his denial of employee’s right?
In the eye of law whether employers act of suppression do not violate the right of employee and amounts to ante social and human policies?
Don't you think we HR agent apply conning tricks and taking employees for granted for ethics and social values under the disguise of our foremost commitment towards employment as major survival issue a head of family and society?
This approach harmful and killing social fabric and psychological needs of employees as human being and looking at him as mechanical person without emotions and sentiments to become scape goat for always sacrificing employees needs just because he is vulnarable might of employers authority to threaten his livelyhood. This is cruel and henious crime against humanity and we Indian HR culprits for vandalizing social atmosphare in India. This attitude of HR who proudly eulogize sycophantlyto all misdeeds of wrong people in management brings disrepute to this profession.
As per global practice, employer has to respect and honor employees privacy/personal life and social commitments and compensate for any denial of his right which are approved by social customs and tradition. Industrial work life cannot ask/force for sacrifice the employees right this is against human rights and ethical norms of civilized society.
I am deadly against such promotion of wrong notions to reinforce the belief in the minds of people that employees are weaker section of society and his need can be exploited under the disguise of employment which empower his social and personal life.
Regards
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
Lest go through following test on the approach recommended by most of the members:
Whom do you hire? Whether employee as person or his services with skills and competencies?
What authority (Employer) HRM has to command the personal/social life agenda of any employee?
Can Employment regulates personal wish and will of employee outside his employment terms and conditions?
Status of employment whether permanent/ temporary/ causal/ substitute dosen't matter and is a secondary issue when it comes to honoring employee’s rights and employers commitment towards social responsibility and humanity?
What authority employer has got to deny the annual vacation or right of vacation to utilize for social or personal cause?
Whether employer takes responsibility to indemnify the loss account of his denial of employee’s right?
In the eye of law whether employers act of suppression do not violate the right of employee and amounts to ante social and human policies?
Don't you think we HR agent apply conning tricks and taking employees for granted for ethics and social values under the disguise of our foremost commitment towards employment as major survival issue a head of family and society?
This approach harmful and killing social fabric and psychological needs of employees as human being and looking at him as mechanical person without emotions and sentiments to become scape goat for always sacrificing employees needs just because he is vulnarable might of employers authority to threaten his livelyhood. This is cruel and henious crime against humanity and we Indian HR culprits for vandalizing social atmosphare in India. This attitude of HR who proudly eulogize sycophantlyto all misdeeds of wrong people in management brings disrepute to this profession.
As per global practice, employer has to respect and honor employees privacy/personal life and social commitments and compensate for any denial of his right which are approved by social customs and tradition. Industrial work life cannot ask/force for sacrifice the employees right this is against human rights and ethical norms of civilized society.
I am deadly against such promotion of wrong notions to reinforce the belief in the minds of people that employees are weaker section of society and his need can be exploited under the disguise of employment which empower his social and personal life.
Regards
Sawant
From Saudi Arabia
you are all satan hr's who doesn't understand employees problem. who made you hr i don't know but let me tell you that if an employee is taking leave for marraige he is not going on leave for without silly reason and marraige is not a silly thing to do in life after all it comes once in a lifetime. The employee is giving so much hard work and time for the company and old minded hr's like prathimareddy's, malikjs's, sam dsouza who have posted their comments on 1st page and who face also no body like to see in as hr are suggesting to make the employee leave the company. prathimareddy's, malikjs's, sam dsouza 1st go and wash ur ass and come to comment bcoz its stinking all over the forum.
From China, Qinhuangdao
From China, Qinhuangdao
Prathima,
I remember this query discussed seven months ago and still revolving in the loop?
For a while I thought if the leave availed is for marriage or maternity. 45 days is unheard of for an employee cadre. If it is at the level of Board of directors then it can be possible. Fine, she thinks she wants to enjoy and spend much of her initial innings.
If she is an experienced employee, and you don't want to loose her, let her take her leave quota available and then go on sick leave with or without LOP.
Mr.Sahil4u, words are to be restricted here.
Regards
Chandru
From India, Madras
I remember this query discussed seven months ago and still revolving in the loop?
For a while I thought if the leave availed is for marriage or maternity. 45 days is unheard of for an employee cadre. If it is at the level of Board of directors then it can be possible. Fine, she thinks she wants to enjoy and spend much of her initial innings.
If she is an experienced employee, and you don't want to loose her, let her take her leave quota available and then go on sick leave with or without LOP.
Mr.Sahil4u, words are to be restricted here.
Regards
Chandru
From India, Madras
I think we should look the matter from all the aspects.
As marriage is a v. important occasion in life. and if u r worrying that she will leave the job, then u cannot stop her.
I think first u should ask her to reduce no. of days, then u can deduct her leaves from the total leave she is entitled for the period she has worked and the remaining days u can deduct her salary.
Regarding leaving the company, u can have a talk with her and ask if she wants to leave the Co. in near future, then she can inform the Co. so that the company can hire a new employee and start training in her supervision.
Management should think that if they expect something from employees, then the employees also expect some thing from the Company.
In exigencies, Co. asks employees to work extra and to put extra efforts, same way employee also expect Co.'s support & understanding in such situations.
Regards,
Tina
From India, New Delhi
As marriage is a v. important occasion in life. and if u r worrying that she will leave the job, then u cannot stop her.
I think first u should ask her to reduce no. of days, then u can deduct her leaves from the total leave she is entitled for the period she has worked and the remaining days u can deduct her salary.
Regarding leaving the company, u can have a talk with her and ask if she wants to leave the Co. in near future, then she can inform the Co. so that the company can hire a new employee and start training in her supervision.
Management should think that if they expect something from employees, then the employees also expect some thing from the Company.
In exigencies, Co. asks employees to work extra and to put extra efforts, same way employee also expect Co.'s support & understanding in such situations.
Regards,
Tina
From India, New Delhi
Dear Sir,
Your opinion is absolutely perfect & worth.
We all should REFINE our THOUGHT process.
Workers/Employees are backbone & WE (HR) people are here to direct them in right direction by ASSISTING them, not by ORDERING.
With due respect to all our members....Thanks
Hope will find more posts on REFINE our THOUGHT process
nisar
From India, Kolhapur
Your opinion is absolutely perfect & worth.
We all should REFINE our THOUGHT process.
Workers/Employees are backbone & WE (HR) people are here to direct them in right direction by ASSISTING them, not by ORDERING.
With due respect to all our members....Thanks
Hope will find more posts on REFINE our THOUGHT process
nisar
From India, Kolhapur
Find answers from people who have previously dealt with business and work issues similar to yours - Please Register and Log In to CiteHR and post your query.
Karnataka Leave.xlsx
Hello Seniors.doc