Dear All,
It is all in the mind...... let me explain from my personal observation...i am a father of a daughter who is working in Navratna of PSU. She dresses good... looks good..and carries herself good... I am a HR Head and when i discuss with her these type of issues... she does not gv a damn..simply says that it is performance that counts... when office closes at 5 pm there are many occasions when she reaches home at 9 or 10 pm. I am surprised at the way she talks sometimes with her collegues... her voice is cold and impassionate..sharp and cutting... she speaks void of emotions.... but she is so friendly with them as well that when there is a personal occasion like birthday everybody flocks in to wish and gift.... but the next day she is somebody different...
I think it is ultimately how u carry yourself... dressing good does not invite eyes...behaving friendly does not invite rumours... be bossy and be pally too...
Women are entirely a different lot today.... there are still many timid and tense lot of them but they are there in males too.... anyway....good luck to all of you womenfolk here..i agree with one thing that at the end of the day u need to take of the house as well... but i hv known household who never cooked at home...becaz the lady is working...facilities are available now a days...make use of them....(for that one lady who said that going to office in a male colleague's car..pls learn driving.. many ladies drive now)....
From India, Bangalore
10It is all in the mind...... let me explain from my personal observation...i am a father of a daughter who is working in Navratna of PSU. She dresses good... looks good..and carries herself good... I am a HR Head and when i discuss with her these type of issues... she does not gv a damn..simply says that it is performance that counts... when office closes at 5 pm there are many occasions when she reaches home at 9 or 10 pm. I am surprised at the way she talks sometimes with her collegues... her voice is cold and impassionate..sharp and cutting... she speaks void of emotions.... but she is so friendly with them as well that when there is a personal occasion like birthday everybody flocks in to wish and gift.... but the next day she is somebody different...
I think it is ultimately how u carry yourself... dressing good does not invite eyes...behaving friendly does not invite rumours... be bossy and be pally too...
Women are entirely a different lot today.... there are still many timid and tense lot of them but they are there in males too.... anyway....good luck to all of you womenfolk here..i agree with one thing that at the end of the day u need to take of the house as well... but i hv known household who never cooked at home...becaz the lady is working...facilities are available now a days...make use of them....(for that one lady who said that going to office in a male colleague's car..pls learn driving.. many ladies drive now)....
From India, Bangalore
Today woman face lot of challenges in workplace despite the so called "equality".If one looks at the ratio of men and woman making it to the top it is really disturbing.Woman specially working mothers at times are denied position of higher responsibility because their employers think that she will not be able to live up the responsibility because she has a small kid. Bottom line is we have to pay the cost if we attempt to balance our work and family life.
Regards,
Swati Verma
From India, Delhi
Regards,
Swati Verma
From India, Delhi
The discussion has been very interesting, with views for and against the subject.
I would just like to add that every employee gets opportunities and faces challenges in their careers. It is the choices a woman makes during her career that will determine how she rises in the corporate world. Balancing family and work is a challenge that only she can resolve. And her choice would determine her career progression.
Safety of women travelling at night is still a big problem, and may be a limiting factor in her growth.
In current times, a woman has to stand up for herself, make her choices, feel empowered.
From India, New Delhi
I would just like to add that every employee gets opportunities and faces challenges in their careers. It is the choices a woman makes during her career that will determine how she rises in the corporate world. Balancing family and work is a challenge that only she can resolve. And her choice would determine her career progression.
Safety of women travelling at night is still a big problem, and may be a limiting factor in her growth.
In current times, a woman has to stand up for herself, make her choices, feel empowered.
From India, New Delhi
Dear Shree,
I do agree with you. I believe the biggest challenge for working women is to maintain right balance between office & home responsibility. As far as male ego concerns, yes it actually happens in the corporate world but again its upto a female how she tackles that. I believe one should not give much importance to all these things and just concentrate on your good work. it will get appreciated sooner or later.
Thanks,
Isha
From India, Delhi
I do agree with you. I believe the biggest challenge for working women is to maintain right balance between office & home responsibility. As far as male ego concerns, yes it actually happens in the corporate world but again its upto a female how she tackles that. I believe one should not give much importance to all these things and just concentrate on your good work. it will get appreciated sooner or later.
Thanks,
Isha
From India, Delhi
Hi,
I am currently pursuing my PhD in Stress faced by professional women.
Working women especially from the corporate sector face the problems of Glass ceiling, sticky floor and many other challenges. To add to all this, the role at home and the conflicts that arise in balancing the dual role is something only a woman can explain....does she really have the time to do so? but i think she really has the mental strength to face these challenges......
Uma Ravi
From India, Madras
I am currently pursuing my PhD in Stress faced by professional women.
Working women especially from the corporate sector face the problems of Glass ceiling, sticky floor and many other challenges. To add to all this, the role at home and the conflicts that arise in balancing the dual role is something only a woman can explain....does she really have the time to do so? but i think she really has the mental strength to face these challenges......
Uma Ravi
From India, Madras
A big thumbs up for all those who understand and accept that women face challenges in the corporate world and those challenges are more or less exclusive for women.
And Hussain, no hard feelings. Women dont blame men for incidents. As i mentioned earlier that there are some women who have created unsuitable examples which are a bane. If a pretty girl is picked up for a job, I am sure she doesnt think that she got picked up because she was pretty but rather as a result of her merit. But again there are exceptions.
Mr Murthy, I am happy that your daughter carries herself well. I wish her success always.
Most women do carry themselves well.
I have worked in a Navratna. Let me share a couple of incidents.
A pretty lady became the object of a HOD's desire. Despite her refusal, he didnt change. Stopped her one evening on some pretext (through her boss) and tried to force her into submission. She escaped with torn clothes. Complained to the unit head. No result. Insted became the topic of gossip. She quit.
A pretty girl, CA, single, very decent family, carried herself well, became an eyes sore to her boss only because he didnt like an intelligent woman subordinate. Tried his best to make each day unhappy. She quit as soon as she got a good offer. She mentioned this in her exit interview. Her HOD didnt do anything about it till today.
A pretty woman. Mother of a toddler, intelligent, hardworking, always had the best of terms with colleagues and bosses, became the object of her HOD's attention. One day he told her ' You come from a good family, u are intelligent, u work hard, are outstanding, but your only problem is that you dont come to ME. Look at Ms xyz she sits in my cabin even after office hours'. This woman replied ' I come to this office only for work'. She spent the next 5 years in hell and finally quit. Her boss tried to protect her from the HOD, filled a written report (there were other harassments too) to the unit head but got transferred in the bargain. That report disappeared. Her next boss also tried to project her outstanding work and try and ensure her promotions dont get blocked, but he himself started getting harassed. The probem was that this HOD had good terms with the higher management.
There was another smart woman who faced problems because her HOD and boss felt that women should be at home rather than at office and women should leave office jobs for men. She quit after working for a couple of years.
So women who carry themselves well, choose to quit rather than undergo such nonsense. I am sure some of you would say in defence that men get harrassed similarly as well and quit too. Yeah sure.
So as Joan pointed out suitably, male chauvinism is a big big problem. There may be incidents were women have made the life of male colleagues misreable. I agree. Will surely speak for the men when the topic comes up. Right now the topic is about the challenges faced by women in the corporate world.
Apologies if i tread any toes. But it would be unfair to mention facts and just argue for the sake or arguing.
Regards.
From India, Visakhapatnam
And Hussain, no hard feelings. Women dont blame men for incidents. As i mentioned earlier that there are some women who have created unsuitable examples which are a bane. If a pretty girl is picked up for a job, I am sure she doesnt think that she got picked up because she was pretty but rather as a result of her merit. But again there are exceptions.
Mr Murthy, I am happy that your daughter carries herself well. I wish her success always.
Most women do carry themselves well.
I have worked in a Navratna. Let me share a couple of incidents.
A pretty lady became the object of a HOD's desire. Despite her refusal, he didnt change. Stopped her one evening on some pretext (through her boss) and tried to force her into submission. She escaped with torn clothes. Complained to the unit head. No result. Insted became the topic of gossip. She quit.
A pretty girl, CA, single, very decent family, carried herself well, became an eyes sore to her boss only because he didnt like an intelligent woman subordinate. Tried his best to make each day unhappy. She quit as soon as she got a good offer. She mentioned this in her exit interview. Her HOD didnt do anything about it till today.
A pretty woman. Mother of a toddler, intelligent, hardworking, always had the best of terms with colleagues and bosses, became the object of her HOD's attention. One day he told her ' You come from a good family, u are intelligent, u work hard, are outstanding, but your only problem is that you dont come to ME. Look at Ms xyz she sits in my cabin even after office hours'. This woman replied ' I come to this office only for work'. She spent the next 5 years in hell and finally quit. Her boss tried to protect her from the HOD, filled a written report (there were other harassments too) to the unit head but got transferred in the bargain. That report disappeared. Her next boss also tried to project her outstanding work and try and ensure her promotions dont get blocked, but he himself started getting harassed. The probem was that this HOD had good terms with the higher management.
There was another smart woman who faced problems because her HOD and boss felt that women should be at home rather than at office and women should leave office jobs for men. She quit after working for a couple of years.
So women who carry themselves well, choose to quit rather than undergo such nonsense. I am sure some of you would say in defence that men get harrassed similarly as well and quit too. Yeah sure.
So as Joan pointed out suitably, male chauvinism is a big big problem. There may be incidents were women have made the life of male colleagues misreable. I agree. Will surely speak for the men when the topic comes up. Right now the topic is about the challenges faced by women in the corporate world.
Apologies if i tread any toes. But it would be unfair to mention facts and just argue for the sake or arguing.
Regards.
From India, Visakhapatnam
@ninpins
The incidents you mentioned are sad and unfortunate, and this are one of the many cases which go unreported. However this are challenges as well as crime done against a person, and the perpetrator should be bought to justice. This are acts of criminal minds, and cannot be generalized as corporate challenge face by women.
After the enlighting discussion on this forum, I admit that, family commitments and work life balance is a challenge women face to balance in a corporate world. Which can be solved by equal participation and understanding between 2 genders in dividing the responisbilites at home and at work.
When it comes to harassments as you mentioned, are more out of individual behavior , personal bias, male chauvinist pigs, and criminal bent of mind which makes life of females or males in companies miserable. I don’t have any relevant examples matching to the ones you have mentioned specially regards to sexual harassments and advancements towards men. It could be a rare occurrence as compared to the ones faced by females. But sadly, unfortunately this is how male dominance has been, females don’t get justice from this male dominance for crimes done against them. I don’t support this male dominance either, I stress on equality among all genders, be it females, males or third gender individual.
Most of the examples of harassment which you mentioned here are practice of individual behavior, I was quiet shaken reading such incidents, this are very criminal acts. But such persons would not spare anyone, they wud harass another subordinate, colleague for their advantage in another way. Let me give you some examples, where I have seen males being harassed too.
I was assigned to HR consulting assignment, and moved to a new team, manager was an experienced guy and had a terrible attitude about his experience and knowledge. Although he dint have any qualification or experience as HR, but he always dominated meetings and discussions with his point of views. He wud humiliate me, if I objected slightly to his suggestions or not even consider a healthy discussion for what he proposed or designed, his words were last words, he wud blame me for his oversights and mistakes, he wud simply makes me work late hours, send me to office on weekends to work while he relaxed, bored me for hours with his arrogant stories, dint have respect for my personal commitments, I used to miss family functions, even after work hours or on weekends, and when I cudnt take the humiliation, I complained to higher authority, I was asked to shut up and complete the assignment or resign from the assignment and they will alot me something else, with underlying taunt that this “misbehavior” would be considered in appraisals, when I resolved that I will continue with assignment, I was mocked and laughed at by the manager. My work’s credit was taken away by this guy, he wud not allow me to interact with clients, treated me like an outsider, but wud give me heap of work to complete related to assignments, if there was a mistake, it was put on me, and if things went well, he humbly accepted the appreciation. Now you must be wondering why he has biased attitude towards me, it is because he wanted his man inside for the job he cud speak his native language from his region, But when I was assigned due to my experience and qualifcaitons, he became very uncomfortable., I don’t wish to beat my own drum but for the sake of example. I had better fluency in communication and have a knack of interacting with local clients here,. Im dressed well, I was qualified, hardworking and yes a male. Can I call this harassment. And this are also prevalent with others (male and females) too. I wont single out men here.
Most of your cases were related to sexual harassment of women at workplace, this are not challenges faced by women, but rather a ghastly crime, which has no justification other than punishing the culprit this kind of men should be punished sternly and publicly humiliated so that a lasting example is set. This are social problems in our society, wrong upbringing, lack of justice.
Corporate Challenges are difficult situations which shall be overcome by the person who is facing it.
There are cases where, smart, qualified, derserving young male professionals are also sidelined by insecure and egoistic bosses. Infact this is a general challenge faced by professionals in the company. my argument is not that it’s the women who doesn’t face this challgenge as you mentioned, that men don’t face this challenge, my point is male or female, they both face such problems.
And regarding your response, to pretty faces picked without relevant qualifications, any pretty girl who is picked up for a job, without matching to job specifications will not admit that, yeah she got picked becoz of pretty face perceived by the biased selector, everyone feels they got selected on merit. Find me one individual which honestly admits that, they got selected for a job becoz they have a pretty face, big contacts etc, and no qualification or brains for the same.
Everyone fights against this issues, if females are harassed, they shud fight it out, till the end, rather than give up and resign, book the wrongdoer, mobilize opinions against wrong practices. There are bad people (male or females) in this world, accept it and fight it. rather than sit blaming “oh what we suppose to do in this male dominant world, we can be just victims.. we will suffer and resign”
Refer to stories of women I mentioned earlier, a fine example of empowerment.
Its matter of findng good and nice people. If harassement it too much to tolerate seek new opportunity. Again applicable to both men and women !
From Kuwait, Salmiya
The incidents you mentioned are sad and unfortunate, and this are one of the many cases which go unreported. However this are challenges as well as crime done against a person, and the perpetrator should be bought to justice. This are acts of criminal minds, and cannot be generalized as corporate challenge face by women.
After the enlighting discussion on this forum, I admit that, family commitments and work life balance is a challenge women face to balance in a corporate world. Which can be solved by equal participation and understanding between 2 genders in dividing the responisbilites at home and at work.
When it comes to harassments as you mentioned, are more out of individual behavior , personal bias, male chauvinist pigs, and criminal bent of mind which makes life of females or males in companies miserable. I don’t have any relevant examples matching to the ones you have mentioned specially regards to sexual harassments and advancements towards men. It could be a rare occurrence as compared to the ones faced by females. But sadly, unfortunately this is how male dominance has been, females don’t get justice from this male dominance for crimes done against them. I don’t support this male dominance either, I stress on equality among all genders, be it females, males or third gender individual.
Most of the examples of harassment which you mentioned here are practice of individual behavior, I was quiet shaken reading such incidents, this are very criminal acts. But such persons would not spare anyone, they wud harass another subordinate, colleague for their advantage in another way. Let me give you some examples, where I have seen males being harassed too.
I was assigned to HR consulting assignment, and moved to a new team, manager was an experienced guy and had a terrible attitude about his experience and knowledge. Although he dint have any qualification or experience as HR, but he always dominated meetings and discussions with his point of views. He wud humiliate me, if I objected slightly to his suggestions or not even consider a healthy discussion for what he proposed or designed, his words were last words, he wud blame me for his oversights and mistakes, he wud simply makes me work late hours, send me to office on weekends to work while he relaxed, bored me for hours with his arrogant stories, dint have respect for my personal commitments, I used to miss family functions, even after work hours or on weekends, and when I cudnt take the humiliation, I complained to higher authority, I was asked to shut up and complete the assignment or resign from the assignment and they will alot me something else, with underlying taunt that this “misbehavior” would be considered in appraisals, when I resolved that I will continue with assignment, I was mocked and laughed at by the manager. My work’s credit was taken away by this guy, he wud not allow me to interact with clients, treated me like an outsider, but wud give me heap of work to complete related to assignments, if there was a mistake, it was put on me, and if things went well, he humbly accepted the appreciation. Now you must be wondering why he has biased attitude towards me, it is because he wanted his man inside for the job he cud speak his native language from his region, But when I was assigned due to my experience and qualifcaitons, he became very uncomfortable., I don’t wish to beat my own drum but for the sake of example. I had better fluency in communication and have a knack of interacting with local clients here,. Im dressed well, I was qualified, hardworking and yes a male. Can I call this harassment. And this are also prevalent with others (male and females) too. I wont single out men here.
Most of your cases were related to sexual harassment of women at workplace, this are not challenges faced by women, but rather a ghastly crime, which has no justification other than punishing the culprit this kind of men should be punished sternly and publicly humiliated so that a lasting example is set. This are social problems in our society, wrong upbringing, lack of justice.
Corporate Challenges are difficult situations which shall be overcome by the person who is facing it.
There are cases where, smart, qualified, derserving young male professionals are also sidelined by insecure and egoistic bosses. Infact this is a general challenge faced by professionals in the company. my argument is not that it’s the women who doesn’t face this challgenge as you mentioned, that men don’t face this challenge, my point is male or female, they both face such problems.
And regarding your response, to pretty faces picked without relevant qualifications, any pretty girl who is picked up for a job, without matching to job specifications will not admit that, yeah she got picked becoz of pretty face perceived by the biased selector, everyone feels they got selected on merit. Find me one individual which honestly admits that, they got selected for a job becoz they have a pretty face, big contacts etc, and no qualification or brains for the same.
Everyone fights against this issues, if females are harassed, they shud fight it out, till the end, rather than give up and resign, book the wrongdoer, mobilize opinions against wrong practices. There are bad people (male or females) in this world, accept it and fight it. rather than sit blaming “oh what we suppose to do in this male dominant world, we can be just victims.. we will suffer and resign”
Refer to stories of women I mentioned earlier, a fine example of empowerment.
Its matter of findng good and nice people. If harassement it too much to tolerate seek new opportunity. Again applicable to both men and women !
From Kuwait, Salmiya
I guess it all depends on the culture of the Company where one works. I used to work for a multinational Company where we are "all women" MANCOM and we were all respected and trusted by the Headoffice. Promotions are based on achievements and experience in respective fields and not on genders. Right now, I am connected with a group of Companies where men rules over women. I have not been made a member of the Mancom, even if I head the HR, and therefore, there were changes on the systems, processes (even if it affects HR) that they would decide and I would be the last to know.
From Philippines, Makati
From Philippines, Makati
Ninpins...... i am shocked and surprised to read the incident where u say a lady ran with torn clothes.... this is not a challenge faced by a women in workplace...this is a crime... why shud anybody suffer crime in silence.. if the management had not taken action, the lady shud hv gone to Police...u know the story of Infosys officer in US.. i told u i am HR head of a reputed org.. a lady in north location in my org gv me a complaint under our sexual harassment policy and gv me a time limit to let her know the proceedings... she said that she keeps the option of going to police open...(and nothing like torn clothes happenend..it was more of a perception mania).... anyway...this gives one more opp to me tell all the ladies or even men.... do not take things lying down.... be brave and face the world.... and others.... let us not be like those passengers in mumbai local train where every body watched while a beggar raped a lady.......stand up for principles......
From India, Bangalore
From India, Bangalore
Hello,
Thanks for responding; Hussain and Mr Murthy. I agree that these behaviours are particular to an individual's personality. It is sad that where I worked there were many others like these guys. Women did stand up for their principles and when they didnt get justice, walked out. I often wondered why didnt they go to the police? I guess there must be a reason. Maybe she chose to retain whatever dignity left and leave this episode behind. There are many more such incidents that i can mention, but that would make this cite a writer's blog rather than a discussion forum.
Hussain, its sad u had a tough boss. A pig i would say. Look at the silver lining, your clothes are intact. :)
These things happen. And I would still stay, that changing or lack of changing men's attitudes towards acceptance of woman in the office and their desire to continue to dominate is a CORPORATE problem, especially when such men bring these attitudes to the workplace.
Its nice to know through this forum that men and women would like to stand for their principles. I dont understand why one human would like to harass another.
Enjoy your day.
Regards
From India, Visakhapatnam
Thanks for responding; Hussain and Mr Murthy. I agree that these behaviours are particular to an individual's personality. It is sad that where I worked there were many others like these guys. Women did stand up for their principles and when they didnt get justice, walked out. I often wondered why didnt they go to the police? I guess there must be a reason. Maybe she chose to retain whatever dignity left and leave this episode behind. There are many more such incidents that i can mention, but that would make this cite a writer's blog rather than a discussion forum.
Hussain, its sad u had a tough boss. A pig i would say. Look at the silver lining, your clothes are intact. :)
These things happen. And I would still stay, that changing or lack of changing men's attitudes towards acceptance of woman in the office and their desire to continue to dominate is a CORPORATE problem, especially when such men bring these attitudes to the workplace.
Its nice to know through this forum that men and women would like to stand for their principles. I dont understand why one human would like to harass another.
Enjoy your day.
Regards
From India, Visakhapatnam
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