Hello Ms. George,
More than looking @ the whole thing as an ethical issue, suggest figure-out the root-causes for such rules.
If you were the Chairman, wouldn't you be worried about the high attrition rates & also 'sense' that the employees aren't feeling too happy with such rules? I am sure you would--after all it won't take anyone to come-up to you & say 'I AM NOT HAPPY'.
NOW PL DON'T THINK I AM SUPPORTING OR JUSTIFYING YOUR CHAIRMAN OR HIS ACTIONS.
For every rule in any Company, there WILL be certain reasons--since you joined only 2 yrs ago you may not have the clear picture--except thru other employees. So obviously, there must have been some reasons why such rules were put into place. Try to talk to the Chairman--when his mood is suitable--and get to know the REASONS.
It's also human nature to continue with a course of action way beyond it's utility. Our Govt rules are the Best example--how many laws are still in place despite the country moving forward much beyond the time when such rules/laws were formulated? Maybe many of what People Power mentioned in this Thread COULD have happened & the Company paid very dearly in the past?
Once you are clear about the EXACT reasons for these rules, think & come-up with alternate solutions. Many Top management persons will not entertain any criticism WITHOUT alternate solutions.
In general too, it's always wise to criticize/point-out WITH SOME ALTERNATIVE also being mentioned alongwith the problem & the existing practice/steps--whether in a job [at every level in the hierarchy] or even @ the personal level.
And coming to your leaving this job, pl note that every job WILL have it's own set of situations to be handled. Running away from them would land you nowhere in the long-run.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
1641More than looking @ the whole thing as an ethical issue, suggest figure-out the root-causes for such rules.
If you were the Chairman, wouldn't you be worried about the high attrition rates & also 'sense' that the employees aren't feeling too happy with such rules? I am sure you would--after all it won't take anyone to come-up to you & say 'I AM NOT HAPPY'.
NOW PL DON'T THINK I AM SUPPORTING OR JUSTIFYING YOUR CHAIRMAN OR HIS ACTIONS.
For every rule in any Company, there WILL be certain reasons--since you joined only 2 yrs ago you may not have the clear picture--except thru other employees. So obviously, there must have been some reasons why such rules were put into place. Try to talk to the Chairman--when his mood is suitable--and get to know the REASONS.
It's also human nature to continue with a course of action way beyond it's utility. Our Govt rules are the Best example--how many laws are still in place despite the country moving forward much beyond the time when such rules/laws were formulated? Maybe many of what People Power mentioned in this Thread COULD have happened & the Company paid very dearly in the past?
Once you are clear about the EXACT reasons for these rules, think & come-up with alternate solutions. Many Top management persons will not entertain any criticism WITHOUT alternate solutions.
In general too, it's always wise to criticize/point-out WITH SOME ALTERNATIVE also being mentioned alongwith the problem & the existing practice/steps--whether in a job [at every level in the hierarchy] or even @ the personal level.
And coming to your leaving this job, pl note that every job WILL have it's own set of situations to be handled. Running away from them would land you nowhere in the long-run.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Hi,
May be the punishment could be humorous. Instead of behaving like an autocrat, one could make it funny and yet send the message.
For example, you can keep a printout on his table the next day like - Oops I forgot to clear my table previous day :((........Some companies even give some kind of token the next day, lets say a funny cap on your head..In all this, just make sure that it shouldn't be insulting/humiliating to the employee.
If you want to make it very serious, HR can include some percentage weightage on discipline during appraisals.
From India, Delhi
May be the punishment could be humorous. Instead of behaving like an autocrat, one could make it funny and yet send the message.
For example, you can keep a printout on his table the next day like - Oops I forgot to clear my table previous day :((........Some companies even give some kind of token the next day, lets say a funny cap on your head..In all this, just make sure that it shouldn't be insulting/humiliating to the employee.
If you want to make it very serious, HR can include some percentage weightage on discipline during appraisals.
From India, Delhi
What I meant to say Ms. George--in a nutshell--was this:
1] This COULD be your chance to learn on how to handle situations that are given up.
2] Focus on the SOLUTION(S) rather than on the PROBLEM. I am sure you WILL come-up with some good alternative solutions to handle the concerns of the Management & the employees--what we in HR call 'out-of-the-box' thinking.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
1] This COULD be your chance to learn on how to handle situations that are given up.
2] Focus on the SOLUTION(S) rather than on the PROBLEM. I am sure you WILL come-up with some good alternative solutions to handle the concerns of the Management & the employees--what we in HR call 'out-of-the-box' thinking.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Ms.George,
There are many ways for any problems........
- Company can make a rule that mobile phones are not allowed into the work place as like many companies now, instead of allowing and afterwards collecting fines
- Instead of imposing fine on the people sitting in other's cabin, a memo / warning can be issued to the person first who is allowing the other person to sit in his cabin (i.e. allowing his own time to get wasted) and then a show cause to the visitor (employee), which creates some sort of fear not to do that...
- Each floor of your office should have a visiting book which should comprise of the information of employee name, employee number, purpose of visit, time of visit and signature. If a person has to leave his/her floor, the reason should be informed at the entrance and should be permitted only for a valid reason
- Lights switch off should be done and monitored by the administration people at the end of working hours. Its their duty as a part of cost-cutting or minimizing / balancing of operational costs
There should definitely be disciplinary actions...... but there should be a limit.....
If it exceeds the limits, employees instead of understanding the importance and purpose...... would react negatively which leads to attrition, damage of reputation, lack of job satisfaction, lack of sincerity in responsibilities etc........ etc.......
CRK
From India, Vijayawada
There are many ways for any problems........
- Company can make a rule that mobile phones are not allowed into the work place as like many companies now, instead of allowing and afterwards collecting fines
- Instead of imposing fine on the people sitting in other's cabin, a memo / warning can be issued to the person first who is allowing the other person to sit in his cabin (i.e. allowing his own time to get wasted) and then a show cause to the visitor (employee), which creates some sort of fear not to do that...
- Each floor of your office should have a visiting book which should comprise of the information of employee name, employee number, purpose of visit, time of visit and signature. If a person has to leave his/her floor, the reason should be informed at the entrance and should be permitted only for a valid reason
- Lights switch off should be done and monitored by the administration people at the end of working hours. Its their duty as a part of cost-cutting or minimizing / balancing of operational costs
There should definitely be disciplinary actions...... but there should be a limit.....
If it exceeds the limits, employees instead of understanding the importance and purpose...... would react negatively which leads to attrition, damage of reputation, lack of job satisfaction, lack of sincerity in responsibilities etc........ etc.......
CRK
From India, Vijayawada
Ms George - Can we try some Gandhigiri? Both for the management and workers. For every Rs. 500/- deducted, the workers can present a bouquet to the plant head. For every time the lights are left in "ON" position OR every time a mobile rings OR any of the above causes for concern to the management the plant head can call them in the daily meeting and present each of them with a rose flower in presence of all personnel. Surely this will be a positive way of managing things.
From India, Jamnagar
From India, Jamnagar
My dear Ms. George
I hope you benefit from the various opinions and points of view given.
My idea behind asking those question was, to enable you to look at the 'problem' from different angles :
If it has not achieved the desired objective; is there any rationale to continue it in the present form ??
As rightly pointed out by many, these are just the visible symptoms of a management that is not 'connected' with its people, as much as about employees who have not been sensitized to professional work ethics.
You have to look for answers and solutions elsewhere; and try several innovative ways of employee engagement, to achieve the desired result and more for the organization and its employees.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
I hope you benefit from the various opinions and points of view given.
My idea behind asking those question was, to enable you to look at the 'problem' from different angles :
- Apart from the 'ethical' part; do you think the quantum of the punishment is justified ?? Should not it be graded on severity and occurrence, rather than a flat hefty amount ??
- Did the novel punishment, result in reducing the occurrence of such offences ??
If it has not achieved the desired objective; is there any rationale to continue it in the present form ??
As rightly pointed out by many, these are just the visible symptoms of a management that is not 'connected' with its people, as much as about employees who have not been sensitized to professional work ethics.
You have to look for answers and solutions elsewhere; and try several innovative ways of employee engagement, to achieve the desired result and more for the organization and its employees.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear Ms. George,
asnwer to the question is a pnishment cannot be un ethical according to me
after creating the awarenes u can implement the punishment part....
we have many such actions which we dont want take place in the society as well in the company,
only way out is awareness
here, u can share workplace of good company making understand the pros / cons so that the employee will carry this info lifen long where he goes
i think ther lies opportuinity for HRD professional to come in
rgds,
From India, Ulhasnagar
asnwer to the question is a pnishment cannot be un ethical according to me
after creating the awarenes u can implement the punishment part....
we have many such actions which we dont want take place in the society as well in the company,
only way out is awareness
here, u can share workplace of good company making understand the pros / cons so that the employee will carry this info lifen long where he goes
i think ther lies opportuinity for HRD professional to come in
rgds,
From India, Ulhasnagar
Hi All,
I am not against discipline and censure. But I believe that Motivation and gentle Persuasion are far more superior and humane ways than Coercion and Punishment.
If it would have been a token fine of Rs 10/- or something, I could have digested it, but a 500 bucks fine?? I am totally aghast and shocked. How can someone think of doing these kind of things. This is downright unethical and coercive punishment.
We say that companies are just like families. Do we 'fine' 500 bucks from our brothers or daughters for leaving a paper on their desks.
These policies are an indication of the kind of negative attitude the bosses have towards their employees and want to treat them as slaves and exploit them to the hilt. I am sure someone at the top must have suggested this way as the cost cutting method.
" When the only tool you have is a Hammer, then you tend to think of everything as a nail."
Ms GEORGE - My suggestion to you is ::Get your experience, do your best, then try to get a better job. Get away from these kind of people before you too become cynical and believe that coercion is the best HR Policy.
From India, Delhi
I am not against discipline and censure. But I believe that Motivation and gentle Persuasion are far more superior and humane ways than Coercion and Punishment.
If it would have been a token fine of Rs 10/- or something, I could have digested it, but a 500 bucks fine?? I am totally aghast and shocked. How can someone think of doing these kind of things. This is downright unethical and coercive punishment.
We say that companies are just like families. Do we 'fine' 500 bucks from our brothers or daughters for leaving a paper on their desks.
These policies are an indication of the kind of negative attitude the bosses have towards their employees and want to treat them as slaves and exploit them to the hilt. I am sure someone at the top must have suggested this way as the cost cutting method.
" When the only tool you have is a Hammer, then you tend to think of everything as a nail."
Ms GEORGE - My suggestion to you is ::Get your experience, do your best, then try to get a better job. Get away from these kind of people before you too become cynical and believe that coercion is the best HR Policy.
From India, Delhi
its very good discussion so far...
i agree with all this seems to be really unethical because human capital is important source for every organization so keep them motivating so that your attrition rate will be decrease in future.
Regardz
Zonash
From Pakistan, Lahore
i agree with all this seems to be really unethical because human capital is important source for every organization so keep them motivating so that your attrition rate will be decrease in future.
Regardz
Zonash
From Pakistan, Lahore
I think when office people dont take things seriously and are casual towards work then management takes this decision....or may be company is already victim of high salaries and low performance scenario so there is no harm in this policy
Also iahe seen employees unnecessarily make hype of everything to prove that they are right always and management is wrong ..
Running a company is very difficult and criticizing management is easy
From India, Delhi
Also iahe seen employees unnecessarily make hype of everything to prove that they are right always and management is wrong ..
Running a company is very difficult and criticizing management is easy
From India, Delhi
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