I have an important topic to discuss , our company has office timings 9:30 to 6:30 pm and there is grace period given for 5 days to come later for 15 mins , more than this half day salary is deducted.
But, from company's point of view this is fine but what about those employees who do multi tasking wait back late almost daily for an hour to finish the work and then go home and even their salary is deducted if they are late.
I want a balance between management policies and to be fair with employees who are working hard for us but if i give liberty one senior staff by not deducting their salary if they are late and sticking to routine policy for other mid level and junior staff then rest of the staff may feel that company is partial but i want to know can company have different policy for senior and junior staff for office timings? i want to be liberal for the senior staff who is working really hard for us but at the same time i want to stick to HR norms and laws hence want to know if we can have different rule for seniors?
Vaishali
From India, Bengaluru
1But, from company's point of view this is fine but what about those employees who do multi tasking wait back late almost daily for an hour to finish the work and then go home and even their salary is deducted if they are late.
I want a balance between management policies and to be fair with employees who are working hard for us but if i give liberty one senior staff by not deducting their salary if they are late and sticking to routine policy for other mid level and junior staff then rest of the staff may feel that company is partial but i want to know can company have different policy for senior and junior staff for office timings? i want to be liberal for the senior staff who is working really hard for us but at the same time i want to stick to HR norms and laws hence want to know if we can have different rule for seniors?
Vaishali
From India, Bengaluru
Hello Viashali
First, find out whether there is enough work load to make them sit late or they are sitting late because they are coming late or is it due to absenteeism and if so what is the rate of absenteeism etc?. Assess the work load and see whether the work is evenly distributed among all the employees or only some employees are burdened while others are whiling away their time.Secondly find out what is the work flow nature. It means whether more work flows post lunch and there is less flow of work during the pre-lunch session. If so, find out the possibility of changing timings to 10.30 a.m to 7.30.p.m since starting early will be not so productive when there is no enough work during pre-lunch session..Conduct some exercise so as to know as to why the employees have to stay back late ?
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Advisor
Navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
First, find out whether there is enough work load to make them sit late or they are sitting late because they are coming late or is it due to absenteeism and if so what is the rate of absenteeism etc?. Assess the work load and see whether the work is evenly distributed among all the employees or only some employees are burdened while others are whiling away their time.Secondly find out what is the work flow nature. It means whether more work flows post lunch and there is less flow of work during the pre-lunch session. If so, find out the possibility of changing timings to 10.30 a.m to 7.30.p.m since starting early will be not so productive when there is no enough work during pre-lunch session..Conduct some exercise so as to know as to why the employees have to stay back late ?
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Advisor
Navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Hello Sai Kumar,
Thanks for below reply. The staff am not talking about is sincere , loyal and are on time mostly except for situation if they missed train or anything similar. The work flow is always high since we are export house which can work 24 x 7 , 365 days so there is no such time of eh day when the work flow is high.
Also the work is distributed well among all staff but as said all fingers of hand are not equal and so all staff are not that pro active and efficient working so the load comes on the handful staff who are heading departments.
Am working on streamlining work accountability for all equally but meanwhile the staff who is taking the additional burden doing all work and has to wait back late due to this i don want their salary to be deducted for genuine reasons if they are late.
But at the same time rules are rules applicable on all staff equally hence i want to know if as per some HR norms if we can have a different rule for senior staff for office timing etc.
Vaishali
From India, Bengaluru
Thanks for below reply. The staff am not talking about is sincere , loyal and are on time mostly except for situation if they missed train or anything similar. The work flow is always high since we are export house which can work 24 x 7 , 365 days so there is no such time of eh day when the work flow is high.
Also the work is distributed well among all staff but as said all fingers of hand are not equal and so all staff are not that pro active and efficient working so the load comes on the handful staff who are heading departments.
Am working on streamlining work accountability for all equally but meanwhile the staff who is taking the additional burden doing all work and has to wait back late due to this i don want their salary to be deducted for genuine reasons if they are late.
But at the same time rules are rules applicable on all staff equally hence i want to know if as per some HR norms if we can have a different rule for senior staff for office timing etc.
Vaishali
From India, Bengaluru
Dear Vaishali,
As per my understanding actually there is no need to have a multi policy and complicate things. As there will be ego hurt that i am not considered senior staff even though i have completed xyx years of service, and an employee having less period of service is considered senior. Instead just add the following point points to the existing policy.
a) If an employee found to violate the in time by more than 45 minutes for more than 5 days in a month and if he does not complete his stupliated 9 hours of daily working on those days , only then the company shall deduct 1/2 day salary. This should resolve your issue. As i personally feel 45 minutes late is really not acceptable.
Gone through a little about the history and culture of your organisation, convincing the team heads will be actually difficult for you as an HR.
All the best.
Hope this helps!
From India, Mahesana
As per my understanding actually there is no need to have a multi policy and complicate things. As there will be ego hurt that i am not considered senior staff even though i have completed xyx years of service, and an employee having less period of service is considered senior. Instead just add the following point points to the existing policy.
a) If an employee found to violate the in time by more than 45 minutes for more than 5 days in a month and if he does not complete his stupliated 9 hours of daily working on those days , only then the company shall deduct 1/2 day salary. This should resolve your issue. As i personally feel 45 minutes late is really not acceptable.
Gone through a little about the history and culture of your organisation, convincing the team heads will be actually difficult for you as an HR.
All the best.
Hope this helps!
From India, Mahesana
It you deduct wages for coming late from the salaries of those who are taking extra load and sitting late in order to compensate for those who are less efficient, it will send a wrong message and will be demotivating. If they fall under workman category, it is normal to pay them Over time. In such case, you can stick to the rule of allowing 15 minutes late on 5 occasions,since they are compensated and it is permissible under law also.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Advisor
Navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Advisor
Navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
I am posting this considering that you are in manufacturing sector, you need to refer payment of wages act for any deduction of salary. As mentioned by you it is case of not following rules and they have to pay fine for it (outcome of your rule). Any deduction of salary in terms of fine will amount to legal complication if raised by someone. Incase of management cadre employee I think so your policy do not have any problem, rather than deducting half day salary start deducting their leave provided it is not approved by their immediate supervisor. Moreover incase of workmen also you can deduct half a day leave.
After analysis you can start paying some amount to employee who is stretching beyond limit.
From Singapore, Singapore
After analysis you can start paying some amount to employee who is stretching beyond limit.
From Singapore, Singapore
Dear All,
thanks for the replies , we are a manufacturing and export co and the staff am talking about is from export office and they are heads of their dept like SM head , Ac/ senior executive and they have spent like 10 years with us.
our industry work culture is such that we have to wait late for some or other work and OT is given by us when something deadly urgent has to be finished same day and who so ever waits will get OT as per OT policy.
here my concern is to be equal to all we deduct salary of all who so ever comes late after 5 chances given to them in a month but I also feel my staff who is senior with us since many years and never sees clock and wont get OT for routine work I should not deduct their salary for coming late after 5 chances due to any emergency they have.
But i want to do this with norms and laws and that is why am asking if there is any law we can have different rules for seniors so that if any other staff points for 2 different rules i have proper explanation.
vaishali
From India, Bengaluru
thanks for the replies , we are a manufacturing and export co and the staff am talking about is from export office and they are heads of their dept like SM head , Ac/ senior executive and they have spent like 10 years with us.
our industry work culture is such that we have to wait late for some or other work and OT is given by us when something deadly urgent has to be finished same day and who so ever waits will get OT as per OT policy.
here my concern is to be equal to all we deduct salary of all who so ever comes late after 5 chances given to them in a month but I also feel my staff who is senior with us since many years and never sees clock and wont get OT for routine work I should not deduct their salary for coming late after 5 chances due to any emergency they have.
But i want to do this with norms and laws and that is why am asking if there is any law we can have different rules for seniors so that if any other staff points for 2 different rules i have proper explanation.
vaishali
From India, Bengaluru
Daer Vaishali,
You have narrated problem and a real practical condition both, similar to almost any other place of working.Senior persons are sitting late,coming late, so HR should try to save salary deduction or not?. Let me share my experience for you and other gentlemen reading this post. Ignoring late reporting time of any class , relating with discipline is not ethically correct , difficult to justify cause and effects, impossible to formulate time limit of reporting late class wise, position wise and finally their out put criterion.We, therefore decided like so many others to adhere discipline by maintaining punctuality and no deviations of any kinds whatsoever.
Secondly, you can not bring in conflicting two sets of practices from this angle. Top management is supposed to be more matured, spending more time with accountability to all written and unwritten assignments .You have described that on completion of urgent assignments , every body gets OT,which being noted as fair practice your management has but its not at most places The moment, you save salary deduction to an individual, categorically senior most, discipline will get washed away from shop floor. For you, any thing good,senior persons are supposed to transfer credit to their team mates and anything bad, seniors should own .Its good practice, keep it up!!!
Regds,
RDS Yadav
From India, Delhi
You have narrated problem and a real practical condition both, similar to almost any other place of working.Senior persons are sitting late,coming late, so HR should try to save salary deduction or not?. Let me share my experience for you and other gentlemen reading this post. Ignoring late reporting time of any class , relating with discipline is not ethically correct , difficult to justify cause and effects, impossible to formulate time limit of reporting late class wise, position wise and finally their out put criterion.We, therefore decided like so many others to adhere discipline by maintaining punctuality and no deviations of any kinds whatsoever.
Secondly, you can not bring in conflicting two sets of practices from this angle. Top management is supposed to be more matured, spending more time with accountability to all written and unwritten assignments .You have described that on completion of urgent assignments , every body gets OT,which being noted as fair practice your management has but its not at most places The moment, you save salary deduction to an individual, categorically senior most, discipline will get washed away from shop floor. For you, any thing good,senior persons are supposed to transfer credit to their team mates and anything bad, seniors should own .Its good practice, keep it up!!!
Regds,
RDS Yadav
From India, Delhi
Hello Vaishali
You have informed that the employees involved in late sitting are not juniors or of workmen cadre. They are Heads of Depts. Now you fear of breach of rule or discrimination if you allow those sincere late sittings seniors are allowed to go without deduction of salaries for coming late either on sixth occasion or beyond 15 minutes.This rule applies only in normal working conditions where all employees report on time and leave on time.But for some employees, this working condition is not applicable as they sit late by force of administrative needs but not on their own accord. So in those cases, you can make a deviation by allowing them to come late without deducting their salaries.or paying OT. Such deviation is permissible in the interests of the organisation. The Board or CMD who has the rule making authority can make a rule of exception too by making it applicable to all those who compulsorily sit late by force administrative circumstances.So this can not be applied universally to all employees. You cannot treat equal an employee who leave on time and the one who sits late and slogs as the conditions applicable to them are different or as NASHBRAMHALL suggested, you can make flexi-time policy. this is only a matter of policy and policies are made to advance smooth functioning but not hurt it.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Advisor
Navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
You have informed that the employees involved in late sitting are not juniors or of workmen cadre. They are Heads of Depts. Now you fear of breach of rule or discrimination if you allow those sincere late sittings seniors are allowed to go without deduction of salaries for coming late either on sixth occasion or beyond 15 minutes.This rule applies only in normal working conditions where all employees report on time and leave on time.But for some employees, this working condition is not applicable as they sit late by force of administrative needs but not on their own accord. So in those cases, you can make a deviation by allowing them to come late without deducting their salaries.or paying OT. Such deviation is permissible in the interests of the organisation. The Board or CMD who has the rule making authority can make a rule of exception too by making it applicable to all those who compulsorily sit late by force administrative circumstances.So this can not be applied universally to all employees. You cannot treat equal an employee who leave on time and the one who sits late and slogs as the conditions applicable to them are different or as NASHBRAMHALL suggested, you can make flexi-time policy. this is only a matter of policy and policies are made to advance smooth functioning but not hurt it.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Advisor
Navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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