Dear All,
Can anyone help me out, our company has implemented the punching attendance system and if anyone comes late it deduct our PL/EL for every 15min delay I want to know whether it is right or wrong to deduct the PL, whether it is as per laws. Because I have hard many companies deduct CL for late coming.
Please clarify me.
Regards
Anjana
From India, Bhubaneswar
11Can anyone help me out, our company has implemented the punching attendance system and if anyone comes late it deduct our PL/EL for every 15min delay I want to know whether it is right or wrong to deduct the PL, whether it is as per laws. Because I have hard many companies deduct CL for late coming.
Please clarify me.
Regards
Anjana
From India, Bhubaneswar
hi
anjana
what u doing is correct . it is ac per the law if we deduct CL or EL for the late coming we are as per the act
so u can proceed with send a circular stating that we are going to deduct the CL/EL for the late coming the u implement so that u can avoid the feature problems
regrs
From India, Hyderabad
anjana
what u doing is correct . it is ac per the law if we deduct CL or EL for the late coming we are as per the act
so u can proceed with send a circular stating that we are going to deduct the CL/EL for the late coming the u implement so that u can avoid the feature problems
regrs
From India, Hyderabad
I do not think this is correct and strictly as per law.
Many companies have rules for penalty for late coming. Most i know deduct half day pay for every 3 late arrivals in a month.
Further, they deduct this as leave without pay rather than deduct from leave as it has a more immediate impact.
A deduction for every day is a little harsh to my understanding.
You need to check if this is specified in your standing orders / model standing orders (where applicable) or if this is a penalty / fine approved by the Labour Officer under Payment of Wages Act. Further, it needs to be clearly displayed prominently and should also be a part of the terms of employment / office rules clearly communicated to all the employees. I have a feeling, it will be deemed to be an illegal deduction under payment of wages act.
From India, Mumbai
Many companies have rules for penalty for late coming. Most i know deduct half day pay for every 3 late arrivals in a month.
Further, they deduct this as leave without pay rather than deduct from leave as it has a more immediate impact.
A deduction for every day is a little harsh to my understanding.
You need to check if this is specified in your standing orders / model standing orders (where applicable) or if this is a penalty / fine approved by the Labour Officer under Payment of Wages Act. Further, it needs to be clearly displayed prominently and should also be a part of the terms of employment / office rules clearly communicated to all the employees. I have a feeling, it will be deemed to be an illegal deduction under payment of wages act.
From India, Mumbai
I completely agree with Saswatabanerjee ji,
As per my knowledge,
its depend on company policies .
Many companies have rules to deduct half day pay for every 3 late arrivals by more than 15 mins in a month.
From India, Solapur
As per my knowledge,
its depend on company policies .
Many companies have rules to deduct half day pay for every 3 late arrivals by more than 15 mins in a month.
From India, Solapur
Hi Anjana,
As per my understanding most of the companies are following late mark after a particular login (9.30am / 10.00am) buffer time of 5 to 10 mins is given..
in case he / she enter office late 3 times in a particular month it is considered as 1/2 day leave which is deducted from EL usually..
Would appreciate any one\'s comments in case i am wrong any where..
Regards,
Vishakha
From India, Mumbai
As per my understanding most of the companies are following late mark after a particular login (9.30am / 10.00am) buffer time of 5 to 10 mins is given..
in case he / she enter office late 3 times in a particular month it is considered as 1/2 day leave which is deducted from EL usually..
Would appreciate any one\'s comments in case i am wrong any where..
Regards,
Vishakha
From India, Mumbai
Many companies have rules to deduct half day pay for every 3 late arrivals by more than 15 mins in a month. But employee repetition also loss. Regards Sreenivas v m
From India, Bellary
From India, Bellary
Dear Anjana,
In my opinion there is no law that endorses EL/ PL deductions for late comings.
Generally companies frame policies relating to late comings.
For example if the reporting time is say 08:30 Hrs
a) there can be a grace period, say 1 - 2 minutes every day for employees. They can report till 08:32. This is because they may get stranded in traffic, rain or for some unforeseen reason. If we are too stringent then employees may tend to travel at relatively higher speeds to meet the deadline of 08:30 hours and this could endanger their lives and also the lives of other road users. It will also been seen that you are fair.
b) Thereafter if he reports beyond 2 minutes then the late coming is considered from 08:30 hours. If he reports at 08:33 hrs he is considered as 3 minutes late.
c) Such late comings may be permitted 3 times a month or upto 15 minutes cumulatively. In other words if he reports for work more than 3 times a month, even if his cumulative late coming is less than 15 minutes or
d) if he exceeds 15 minutes cumulatively, even on the first occasion he reports for work at 08:45 then it is considered that he has exhausted his late coming privilege.
e) For every late coming beyond condition c & d, you may consider deducting 1/2 day for every late coming.
f) In case an employee has an emergency work to be attended, you may consider granting permission upto 1 hour cumulatively and restrict the number of times the employee can avail this permission to, 1 - 2 times without exceeding the 1 hour cumulatively.
The above is only an example and you can frame your own company policy.
Regards
M.V.Kannan
From India, Madras
In my opinion there is no law that endorses EL/ PL deductions for late comings.
Generally companies frame policies relating to late comings.
For example if the reporting time is say 08:30 Hrs
a) there can be a grace period, say 1 - 2 minutes every day for employees. They can report till 08:32. This is because they may get stranded in traffic, rain or for some unforeseen reason. If we are too stringent then employees may tend to travel at relatively higher speeds to meet the deadline of 08:30 hours and this could endanger their lives and also the lives of other road users. It will also been seen that you are fair.
b) Thereafter if he reports beyond 2 minutes then the late coming is considered from 08:30 hours. If he reports at 08:33 hrs he is considered as 3 minutes late.
c) Such late comings may be permitted 3 times a month or upto 15 minutes cumulatively. In other words if he reports for work more than 3 times a month, even if his cumulative late coming is less than 15 minutes or
d) if he exceeds 15 minutes cumulatively, even on the first occasion he reports for work at 08:45 then it is considered that he has exhausted his late coming privilege.
e) For every late coming beyond condition c & d, you may consider deducting 1/2 day for every late coming.
f) In case an employee has an emergency work to be attended, you may consider granting permission upto 1 hour cumulatively and restrict the number of times the employee can avail this permission to, 1 - 2 times without exceeding the 1 hour cumulatively.
The above is only an example and you can frame your own company policy.
Regards
M.V.Kannan
From India, Madras
Hi Anjana,
Many learned followers have contributed and I somewhat agree with Mr. Saswat Banerjee & Mr. Kannan. They have given valuable experiences. From their contribution you might have understood that Leave policy and Standing Order provisions should be taken into account before taking any harsh action. I would like to sum up as follows including the practice being followed in our industry which is a large size industry.
1. A cushion of 15 minutes is given, as it is not possible to get the attendance of all the employees on dot reporting time, and early arrival cannot be emphasized upon. If Company is not ready to give 15 minutes cushion, sufficient number of card punching machines will have to be installed to facilitate card punching near the work place. But in all cases, reasonable cushion has to be allowed.
2. After the cushion period of 15 minutes from arrival time, the person is marked late. In some of the establishments, such late arrivals are summed up at the end of the month and salary is deducted accordingly. In some establishments, one half day CL is deducted for 3 such late arrivals, but if the delay is by 1 hour or more, the person is not allowed on that day. Either he has to apply for leave or he is marked absent.
3. If such practice is not being followed earlier and it is being introduced afresh, a notice u/s 9(A) of ID Act should be displayed on notice boards at prominent places 21 days prior to implementing such change in service condition. It will help in convincing the workers' representatives and workers to cooperate in implementation of the new policy and avoid IR problem.
AK Jain
From India, Jabalpur
Many learned followers have contributed and I somewhat agree with Mr. Saswat Banerjee & Mr. Kannan. They have given valuable experiences. From their contribution you might have understood that Leave policy and Standing Order provisions should be taken into account before taking any harsh action. I would like to sum up as follows including the practice being followed in our industry which is a large size industry.
1. A cushion of 15 minutes is given, as it is not possible to get the attendance of all the employees on dot reporting time, and early arrival cannot be emphasized upon. If Company is not ready to give 15 minutes cushion, sufficient number of card punching machines will have to be installed to facilitate card punching near the work place. But in all cases, reasonable cushion has to be allowed.
2. After the cushion period of 15 minutes from arrival time, the person is marked late. In some of the establishments, such late arrivals are summed up at the end of the month and salary is deducted accordingly. In some establishments, one half day CL is deducted for 3 such late arrivals, but if the delay is by 1 hour or more, the person is not allowed on that day. Either he has to apply for leave or he is marked absent.
3. If such practice is not being followed earlier and it is being introduced afresh, a notice u/s 9(A) of ID Act should be displayed on notice boards at prominent places 21 days prior to implementing such change in service condition. It will help in convincing the workers' representatives and workers to cooperate in implementation of the new policy and avoid IR problem.
AK Jain
From India, Jabalpur
Strict reading of the payment of wages act seem to indicate you are right, that there is no legal provision allowing deduction for late arrival. In fact it would amount to illegal deduction.
However, factory act has a provision under which any worker coming late will not allowed into the factory for that shift. But if you allow him into the factory to workmformthat shift, you are required to pay him his full salary. There is a provision for deduction for absence from work, which could be seen to include this situation, so probably you can justify deduction of proportionate amount for the number of minutes he was absent, There is no such provision under shop and establishment act I have come across.
So, the employee will probably agree to a pay cut instead of losing entire days salary. However, half day pay cut for 15 min absence seem excessive. I suspect the employee will say - chuck it, I will come to work in the second half.
Of course, if it is specified in terms of employment (standing orders, or notice under industrial,dispute act), then it should be ok
From India, Mumbai
However, factory act has a provision under which any worker coming late will not allowed into the factory for that shift. But if you allow him into the factory to workmformthat shift, you are required to pay him his full salary. There is a provision for deduction for absence from work, which could be seen to include this situation, so probably you can justify deduction of proportionate amount for the number of minutes he was absent, There is no such provision under shop and establishment act I have come across.
So, the employee will probably agree to a pay cut instead of losing entire days salary. However, half day pay cut for 15 min absence seem excessive. I suspect the employee will say - chuck it, I will come to work in the second half.
Of course, if it is specified in terms of employment (standing orders, or notice under industrial,dispute act), then it should be ok
From India, Mumbai
The model standing orders, central says :
4. Publication of working time.--The periods and hours of work for all classes of workers in each shift shall be exhibited in English and in the principal languages of workman employed in the establishment on notice-boards maintained at or near the main entrance of the establishment and at the time-keeper’s office, if any.
8. Attendance and late coming.--All workmen shall be at work at the time fixed and notified under Paragraph 4. Workmen attending late will be liable to the deductions provided for in the Payment of Wages Act, 1936.
NOTE.- All workmen shall have to do the work in establishment at the time fixed and notified under Para 4. There is a provision for deduction in the payment if some one becomes late according to the Payment of Wages Act. 1936.
The only provision I find in payment of wages act is as below. I do not Fina any provision for deduction for late arrival. So looks like this can be construed as illegal. Looking for feedback from seniors
9. Deductions for absence from duty.-(1) Deductions may be made under clause (b) of sub-section
(2) of section 7 only on account of the absence of an employed person from the place or places where, by the terms of his employment, he is required to work, such absence being for the whole or any part of the period during which he is so required to work.
(2) The amount of such deduction shall in no case bear to the wages payable to the employed person in respect of the wage-period for which the deduction is made a larger proportion than the period for which he was absent bears to the total period, within such wage- period, during which by the terms of his employment, he was required to work:
Provided that, subject to any rules made in this behalf by the State Government, if ten or more employed persons acting in concert absent themselves without due notice (that is to say without giving the notice which is required under the terms of their contracts of employment) and without reasonable cause, such deduction from any such person may include such amount not exceeding his wages for eight days as may be any such terms be due to the employer in lieu of due notice.
1*[Explanation.--For the purposes of this section, an employed person shall be deemed to be absent from the place where he is required to work if, although present in such place, he refuses, in pursuance of a stay-in strike or for any other cause which is not reasonable in the circumstances, to carry out his work.]
From India, Mumbai
4. Publication of working time.--The periods and hours of work for all classes of workers in each shift shall be exhibited in English and in the principal languages of workman employed in the establishment on notice-boards maintained at or near the main entrance of the establishment and at the time-keeper’s office, if any.
8. Attendance and late coming.--All workmen shall be at work at the time fixed and notified under Paragraph 4. Workmen attending late will be liable to the deductions provided for in the Payment of Wages Act, 1936.
NOTE.- All workmen shall have to do the work in establishment at the time fixed and notified under Para 4. There is a provision for deduction in the payment if some one becomes late according to the Payment of Wages Act. 1936.
The only provision I find in payment of wages act is as below. I do not Fina any provision for deduction for late arrival. So looks like this can be construed as illegal. Looking for feedback from seniors
9. Deductions for absence from duty.-(1) Deductions may be made under clause (b) of sub-section
(2) of section 7 only on account of the absence of an employed person from the place or places where, by the terms of his employment, he is required to work, such absence being for the whole or any part of the period during which he is so required to work.
(2) The amount of such deduction shall in no case bear to the wages payable to the employed person in respect of the wage-period for which the deduction is made a larger proportion than the period for which he was absent bears to the total period, within such wage- period, during which by the terms of his employment, he was required to work:
Provided that, subject to any rules made in this behalf by the State Government, if ten or more employed persons acting in concert absent themselves without due notice (that is to say without giving the notice which is required under the terms of their contracts of employment) and without reasonable cause, such deduction from any such person may include such amount not exceeding his wages for eight days as may be any such terms be due to the employer in lieu of due notice.
1*[Explanation.--For the purposes of this section, an employed person shall be deemed to be absent from the place where he is required to work if, although present in such place, he refuses, in pursuance of a stay-in strike or for any other cause which is not reasonable in the circumstances, to carry out his work.]
From India, Mumbai
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