Dear All, This is my first post on CiteHR, I am AM-HR in a new start-up company and I am facing so many HR issues day by day. I request all of you pls help me out to get solutions to these issues.
Today one employee shouted at me for his offer letter, as he joined the company at end of August 2012 as a technician and his behavior was not appropriate and he was misguiding other technicians too in the same way so the company terminated him without giving any type of offer letter. Now he started to visit the office day by day and asking for an offer letter. I am very much confused about what to do?
Now he already terminated by our company, today he visited office again and shouted at me like anything.... pls suggest to me what to do in this situation???... Should I give him an offer letter as his stay with the company was: (25 august,2012-6 Nov,2012).
waiting for a fast reply.
From India, Delhi
10Today one employee shouted at me for his offer letter, as he joined the company at end of August 2012 as a technician and his behavior was not appropriate and he was misguiding other technicians too in the same way so the company terminated him without giving any type of offer letter. Now he started to visit the office day by day and asking for an offer letter. I am very much confused about what to do?
Now he already terminated by our company, today he visited office again and shouted at me like anything.... pls suggest to me what to do in this situation???... Should I give him an offer letter as his stay with the company was: (25 august,2012-6 Nov,2012).
waiting for a fast reply.
From India, Delhi
Hi Mahima
Welcome to CiteHR.com !!!
The job of an HR manager is full of stress and one has to face umpteen requests and demands from employees. Some vent out their feelings as HR is considered a representative of the management as well. So keep your cool and don't feel too stressed out.
In this case there is no question of an Offer letter. However you can issue an experience letter.
in case you need any further clarification, do feel free to ask.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Welcome to CiteHR.com !!!
The job of an HR manager is full of stress and one has to face umpteen requests and demands from employees. Some vent out their feelings as HR is considered a representative of the management as well. So keep your cool and don't feel too stressed out.
In this case there is no question of an Offer letter. However you can issue an experience letter.
in case you need any further clarification, do feel free to ask.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear Mahima Welcome to CiteHR.com !!! In this case there is no question of an Offer letter. However you can issue an experience letter to him. Warm regards.
From India, Ranchi
From India, Ranchi
Hello Mahima,
In continuation to your query above, there are 2 queries from my side -
1. Have you stroked out his name from Salary Register of that specific months or is he still your employee for that period? Depending on your YES or NO the answer can be different.
2. Otherwise; what is the procedure of issuing OFFER letter & APPOINTMENT letter in your company?
Generally offer letter is issued when we give the offer to candidate stating a specific date of joining with specific other details. It is a confirmation / acknowledgement by company to the employee ensuring the offered position.
Appointment letter is one issued ON THE DAY OF JOINING (in some start up ventures it is issued within 7 days).
It seems that your company has not issued any of the above to the employee.
Now, when the organization has already TERMINATED his employment within a short span, there are few options available DEPENDING on MANAGEMENT's discretion -
1. Issue him back dated offer letter & appointment letter.
2. Do not issue appointment letter. Only issue offer letter
3. Do not (NO NEED TO) issue experience certificate as the candidate has been TERMINATED (hope you have followed the procedure of termination religiously).
If you have stroked out the name, then inform him that he would not receive any documents from the company.
From India, Ahmedabad
In continuation to your query above, there are 2 queries from my side -
1. Have you stroked out his name from Salary Register of that specific months or is he still your employee for that period? Depending on your YES or NO the answer can be different.
2. Otherwise; what is the procedure of issuing OFFER letter & APPOINTMENT letter in your company?
Generally offer letter is issued when we give the offer to candidate stating a specific date of joining with specific other details. It is a confirmation / acknowledgement by company to the employee ensuring the offered position.
Appointment letter is one issued ON THE DAY OF JOINING (in some start up ventures it is issued within 7 days).
It seems that your company has not issued any of the above to the employee.
Now, when the organization has already TERMINATED his employment within a short span, there are few options available DEPENDING on MANAGEMENT's discretion -
1. Issue him back dated offer letter & appointment letter.
2. Do not issue appointment letter. Only issue offer letter
3. Do not (NO NEED TO) issue experience certificate as the candidate has been TERMINATED (hope you have followed the procedure of termination religiously).
If you have stroked out the name, then inform him that he would not receive any documents from the company.
From India, Ahmedabad
Dear Rajkumar & Malay
Is there anything wrong by giving Offer Letter at this stage with the previous dates?
My point is since the company Mahima is working is a startup and might not have process and procedures as of now.
An ex-employee who is allowed to shout at AM HR for the offer letter it self states the environment in this company, so is there something wrong in Mahima giving off an offer letter to this employee? As an act to smooth-en this process. Please correct me if i am wrong
Dear Mahima,
If you have a situation where you have to give the offer letter to smoothen this issues, please see that the below clauses are included:
1. 6 months probation
2. Immediate termination for misconduct(during probation period) .
Thanks!
From India, Bangalore
Is there anything wrong by giving Offer Letter at this stage with the previous dates?
My point is since the company Mahima is working is a startup and might not have process and procedures as of now.
An ex-employee who is allowed to shout at AM HR for the offer letter it self states the environment in this company, so is there something wrong in Mahima giving off an offer letter to this employee? As an act to smooth-en this process. Please correct me if i am wrong
Dear Mahima,
If you have a situation where you have to give the offer letter to smoothen this issues, please see that the below clauses are included:
1. 6 months probation
2. Immediate termination for misconduct(during probation period) .
Thanks!
From India, Bangalore
Hi Mahima,
offer letter is issues to a candidate before joining so their is no point of entertaining is request to provide offer letter.
Also if required you can provide experience letter if you want to avoid him.
From India, Mumbai
offer letter is issues to a candidate before joining so their is no point of entertaining is request to provide offer letter.
Also if required you can provide experience letter if you want to avoid him.
From India, Mumbai
First of all please let the contributing members know the following
1) Does your company comes under Factories Act or Shops & Establishment Act
2) How big is ur company (Employee Strength)
3) Whether the employee is in your Statutory record or not
From India, Ahmadabad
1) Does your company comes under Factories Act or Shops & Establishment Act
2) How big is ur company (Employee Strength)
3) Whether the employee is in your Statutory record or not
From India, Ahmadabad
Dear Alwin
I like your question and your spirit of enquiry !!!
It gives me an opportunity to explain and clarify the doubts that others may also be having.
See, there are no unique solution to the problem posed. However, we should endeavour to prescribe a solution that is legally compliant, ETHICAL, as per the norms of HRM/Personnel management etc.
Hope you"ll agree on these.
Now, as you say, one solution can be issuing an Offer Letter and getting over with this nagging problem.
But consider these facts :
As on date the employee's services stand terminated.
Issuing an offer, at this stage, would amuont to issuing a BACK-DATED letter. This is not considered good or proper in law. Moreover, no ethical manager wwould agree to sign such a back-dated document.
If the matter goes to Court, the signing person must admit that he has signed a back dated order, and this would be such a great matter of embarrassment for a company. . Any false statement to the contrary, in court would amount to perjury and is punishable.
Whereas, there is absolutely no problem in issuing an Experience letter, which is customary and also a legal requirement in certain cases.
Hope you"ll find the above explanation, adequate and satisfactory.
Its always advisable to give well-thought out and considered opinion in such a professional forum; and I expect all members to do so, rather than give off-the-cuff, casual opinions.
Do keep contributing.
Warm regards.
Raj Kumar
From India, Delhi
I like your question and your spirit of enquiry !!!
It gives me an opportunity to explain and clarify the doubts that others may also be having.
See, there are no unique solution to the problem posed. However, we should endeavour to prescribe a solution that is legally compliant, ETHICAL, as per the norms of HRM/Personnel management etc.
Hope you"ll agree on these.
Now, as you say, one solution can be issuing an Offer Letter and getting over with this nagging problem.
But consider these facts :
As on date the employee's services stand terminated.
Issuing an offer, at this stage, would amuont to issuing a BACK-DATED letter. This is not considered good or proper in law. Moreover, no ethical manager wwould agree to sign such a back-dated document.
If the matter goes to Court, the signing person must admit that he has signed a back dated order, and this would be such a great matter of embarrassment for a company. . Any false statement to the contrary, in court would amount to perjury and is punishable.
Whereas, there is absolutely no problem in issuing an Experience letter, which is customary and also a legal requirement in certain cases.
Hope you"ll find the above explanation, adequate and satisfactory.
Its always advisable to give well-thought out and considered opinion in such a professional forum; and I expect all members to do so, rather than give off-the-cuff, casual opinions.
Do keep contributing.
Warm regards.
Raj Kumar
From India, Delhi
Dear Mahima,
Was this employee issued termination letter so far or it was only oral termination !!!
If termination letter was issued, then you may issue A SERVICE CERTIFICATE indicating the date of joining and date of termination.
I doubt, whether proper procedure is followed while terminating the employee since yours is start up company. If you had not issued termination letter, please do not issue SERVICE CERTIFICATE also lest it will land you in legal problems since there is every likelihood that terminated employee may approach labour department and ask for reinstatement. In the absence of enquiry proceedings, you will be ordered to reinstate him with back wages.
Thus, even if it is difficult, convince your management for following legal procedure before terminating any employee including this one.
Normally, in private companies, we call employee and ask him to put up his papers in such of these cases where termination is warranted and will settle his dues including severence pay if any.
Be bold and face the problem. When compared to other professionals, we are working with human beings and their behaviour. TRANSPARENCY AND TRUST BUILDING shall be buzz words for our profession. Employees shall treat us as their Helper & Wellwisher.
Regards
Haragopal
GM-HR
SOLAR SEMICONDUCTOR PVT LTD.,
HYDERABAD
From India, Hyderabad
Was this employee issued termination letter so far or it was only oral termination !!!
If termination letter was issued, then you may issue A SERVICE CERTIFICATE indicating the date of joining and date of termination.
I doubt, whether proper procedure is followed while terminating the employee since yours is start up company. If you had not issued termination letter, please do not issue SERVICE CERTIFICATE also lest it will land you in legal problems since there is every likelihood that terminated employee may approach labour department and ask for reinstatement. In the absence of enquiry proceedings, you will be ordered to reinstate him with back wages.
Thus, even if it is difficult, convince your management for following legal procedure before terminating any employee including this one.
Normally, in private companies, we call employee and ask him to put up his papers in such of these cases where termination is warranted and will settle his dues including severence pay if any.
Be bold and face the problem. When compared to other professionals, we are working with human beings and their behaviour. TRANSPARENCY AND TRUST BUILDING shall be buzz words for our profession. Employees shall treat us as their Helper & Wellwisher.
Regards
Haragopal
GM-HR
SOLAR SEMICONDUCTOR PVT LTD.,
HYDERABAD
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Mahima,
Welcom. and all the best.
Coming to your problem - many employer adopt this practice of not issuing any formal offer or apptt.letter and ask those selected to join and ask some day to get out for various reasons. (Unethical) But still This is going on even in well estd.companies/ employer. Sad. But it doesn't mean you should follow suit. You said he was issued marching orders ??/ some sort of termination. Let me ask U - No offer letter was issued - correct ? Was he issued any termination letter ?? I presume U did not, in which case I would say NO Offer letter now as well. There could be no question of giving an offer letter "ex-post facto" after he was "terminated" by some method. He is trying to get some document supporting his service in your firm. He is right and your past is wrong. Then, how to solve your problem ? Well nobody can cover up having employed him because you cud have paid his salary for Aug, Sep, Oct but not Nov. may be thro' bank a/c credit. In the circumstances U cud only treat him as a "trainee" and not as a regular employee and in which case, stick to the stand, that your co. has no practice of "offer" or "apptt." to trainees and he was paid only stipend during training. And finally he was marked absent for the days he was not taken to job and he is no more on the rolls. (Unfair labour pratices friend). Don't worry if he shouts at you, it is the job of your security to handle, it is a matter of maintaining law & order with in the premises.
I'm sorry I understand what should have been done by yr.firm and wat has been done and wat is possible. I cann't help much more. Don't worry have courage pal.
kumar.s.
From India, Bangalore
Welcom. and all the best.
Coming to your problem - many employer adopt this practice of not issuing any formal offer or apptt.letter and ask those selected to join and ask some day to get out for various reasons. (Unethical) But still This is going on even in well estd.companies/ employer. Sad. But it doesn't mean you should follow suit. You said he was issued marching orders ??/ some sort of termination. Let me ask U - No offer letter was issued - correct ? Was he issued any termination letter ?? I presume U did not, in which case I would say NO Offer letter now as well. There could be no question of giving an offer letter "ex-post facto" after he was "terminated" by some method. He is trying to get some document supporting his service in your firm. He is right and your past is wrong. Then, how to solve your problem ? Well nobody can cover up having employed him because you cud have paid his salary for Aug, Sep, Oct but not Nov. may be thro' bank a/c credit. In the circumstances U cud only treat him as a "trainee" and not as a regular employee and in which case, stick to the stand, that your co. has no practice of "offer" or "apptt." to trainees and he was paid only stipend during training. And finally he was marked absent for the days he was not taken to job and he is no more on the rolls. (Unfair labour pratices friend). Don't worry if he shouts at you, it is the job of your security to handle, it is a matter of maintaining law & order with in the premises.
I'm sorry I understand what should have been done by yr.firm and wat has been done and wat is possible. I cann't help much more. Don't worry have courage pal.
kumar.s.
From India, Bangalore
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