Dear All
I am really disturbed by the overwhelming majority of "Naysayers". Those who have accepted or want to accept corruption as part of their daily life.
I don't know what do I want to call them!
Will "SPINELESS" be an appropriate term?
Now...now... I know that I have bought the wrath of the "spineless"
.....unconsciously the "spineless" will identify the term with themselves and respond in defense of their missing spines :)
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
4I am really disturbed by the overwhelming majority of "Naysayers". Those who have accepted or want to accept corruption as part of their daily life.
I don't know what do I want to call them!
Will "SPINELESS" be an appropriate term?
Now...now... I know that I have bought the wrath of the "spineless"
.....unconsciously the "spineless" will identify the term with themselves and respond in defense of their missing spines :)
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Dear Mr. Good HR Associates
Please understand one thing in life.
As a HR person you must keep up your morale up and maintain the Self Esteem. The HR Person must be self motivated and act without prejudice. You must have some control on your emotion. I do agree, some corrupted persons are available in all the fields (which includes HR Departments too). Here I would like to advise you, that you must act as like a Man of Brain and not like a Man of Mood.
Please control your emotions. When emotions are acting there the brain stops its function. Hope you can understand what I want to convey here. Please take every advice received from the members in a healthy way. Think before act. Never act in hasty as there are chances for going wrong and you can also be traped.
All the best
From India, Kumbakonam
Please understand one thing in life.
As a HR person you must keep up your morale up and maintain the Self Esteem. The HR Person must be self motivated and act without prejudice. You must have some control on your emotion. I do agree, some corrupted persons are available in all the fields (which includes HR Departments too). Here I would like to advise you, that you must act as like a Man of Brain and not like a Man of Mood.
Please control your emotions. When emotions are acting there the brain stops its function. Hope you can understand what I want to convey here. Please take every advice received from the members in a healthy way. Think before act. Never act in hasty as there are chances for going wrong and you can also be traped.
All the best
From India, Kumbakonam
Yes Bhaskar
I know what you are trying to say. Thanks.
People like me are out numbered 1:1000. I know that.
So what do you suggest. I should keep quite. and quit?
Anna Hazare has been at it for so long..we need something more radical if we need to change. Fortunately like Anna I have a Forces background. perhaps we guys are a tad more aggressive & intolerant towards wrong doers.
Otherwise..
chal raha hai..chalne do..
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
I know what you are trying to say. Thanks.
People like me are out numbered 1:1000. I know that.
So what do you suggest. I should keep quite. and quit?
Anna Hazare has been at it for so long..we need something more radical if we need to change. Fortunately like Anna I have a Forces background. perhaps we guys are a tad more aggressive & intolerant towards wrong doers.
Otherwise..
chal raha hai..chalne do..
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Dear Good HR Associates,
It’s been pleasure to read your posts and the replies.Everyone is entitled to their opinion and views. I’m here to support all measures against corruption however small they may be. This is what till date (in my own ways )I’ve been doing. Though many times I ‘ve faced undesirable consequences.Nonetheless, it’s my decision and I shall stay committed, for me it’s matter of principles.
I’ve been a personal witness where a person who stood by his ideals was denied promotion. Infact, his superior mentioned negative remarks just because this person was not taking bribes (he worked with Materials department ) and because of him the superior was unable to get a cut in the entire deal. It was accepted , because when you accept to walk onto chosen path-there are many consequences attached to it. I am also not saying that these consequences are negative only.
Corruption isn’t just centred in corporate HR but is wide spread everywhere. Right from health,Law ,education field, abuse of authority and so on. Just filling out written petitions or signing on pledges doesn’t work. One might put it in paper and then forget! We need good role models too!
It has to start from within and I’m sure there would be many to join.
like they say "The fight for justice against corruption is never easy. It never has been and never will be easy".
From India, Vadodara
It’s been pleasure to read your posts and the replies.Everyone is entitled to their opinion and views. I’m here to support all measures against corruption however small they may be. This is what till date (in my own ways )I’ve been doing. Though many times I ‘ve faced undesirable consequences.Nonetheless, it’s my decision and I shall stay committed, for me it’s matter of principles.
I’ve been a personal witness where a person who stood by his ideals was denied promotion. Infact, his superior mentioned negative remarks just because this person was not taking bribes (he worked with Materials department ) and because of him the superior was unable to get a cut in the entire deal. It was accepted , because when you accept to walk onto chosen path-there are many consequences attached to it. I am also not saying that these consequences are negative only.
Corruption isn’t just centred in corporate HR but is wide spread everywhere. Right from health,Law ,education field, abuse of authority and so on. Just filling out written petitions or signing on pledges doesn’t work. One might put it in paper and then forget! We need good role models too!
It has to start from within and I’m sure there would be many to join.
like they say "The fight for justice against corruption is never easy. It never has been and never will be easy".
From India, Vadodara
Dear Shalini
I salute you & your colleague. Hats off to few brave & determined people like you.
Shalini, what you have mentioned will DEFINITELY boost the morale of everybody who is against corruption of any kind - Moral Or material.
More people should come out like you and claim to have taken the right path & make their commitment public.
The Good now need to shout from roof tops about their resolve. More people like you , me & several others shouting against corruption will be enough to send down shivers down the non existent spines of the corrupts & naysayers.
We don't need to be afraid of the corrupt. They need to be afraid of us. And they will be - Soon.
I invite more people who have resolved & taken a vow to remain clean of corruption.
Bouquets to you & your likes, Shalini.
Good HR Associates.
From India, Chandigarh
I salute you & your colleague. Hats off to few brave & determined people like you.
Shalini, what you have mentioned will DEFINITELY boost the morale of everybody who is against corruption of any kind - Moral Or material.
More people should come out like you and claim to have taken the right path & make their commitment public.
The Good now need to shout from roof tops about their resolve. More people like you , me & several others shouting against corruption will be enough to send down shivers down the non existent spines of the corrupts & naysayers.
We don't need to be afraid of the corrupt. They need to be afraid of us. And they will be - Soon.
I invite more people who have resolved & taken a vow to remain clean of corruption.
Bouquets to you & your likes, Shalini.
Good HR Associates.
From India, Chandigarh
Good HR Associates,
It is an interesting post! And I am really happy to see you 'fight' it out. You might single yourself out in the end, but it would definitely be worth it. Anything done to curb corruption is welcome.
And if you think this can be supported, well, let us know. We will try in our best way.
I feel the root of this issue lies elsewhere... and that is the lack of respect for education. Our development paradigm went a little off-track to begin with. And the 'second best' alternative along with corrupt politicians has taken the country to dogs. Corruption would thrive only if there is support at the top. A nonchalant government is a perfect 'stimulus' package for corruption. And although we have had great ministers, the subtle compromise of choices and quality reached a critical mass and that has snowballed now into the huge rackets of corruption. One sees this point being raised time and again... HR being an 'everybodys zone'... In other words, we have degraded our systems to the extent that we don't know what the value of education should be. Most engineers in our country are not even close to all the areas of engineering. In fact, the fly-by-night engineering schools have made it possible to lower the entry barriers, but have not helped ensure the high quality required of the product. Moreover, from a demand perspective (of engineering graduates), the focus of our market has always been to 'run the show' rather than to 'create the show'. Its like comparing between making a new car and driving or maintaining the car... Obviously a driver / mechanic needs very different and select skills. You do that a little too often, and you enter into a loop... Thats happening now.
Now this is a vicious circle... the lack of respect is due to the surplus supply, something that comes due to excessive population. Anyone is fond of having a highly qualified individual for peanuts... The human resource department seldom says that we don't need a graduate, but even a 12th std. student would perform well in a job. This is where they are not understanding the value of education themselves... Moreover, the fly-by-night schools that are springing up in the country are only worsening the scenario... They are abusing education further! Just see it for yourself... You see posts in the Ascent that almost always call for graduates, while those in the Gulf rarely insist on graduates (largely diploma).
Our governance model is largely 'imported' and this is a huge cause of concern. It is a case of an inappropriate management system. Worked for the British, but might not be the best here. And our essential system is based on distrust rather than trust... If the reservation window takes too long at the railways station, people say he is not doing his work well, or even that he might be from the 'elevated' categories... Our model makes us run down our own people. This is another problem because our performance appraisal criteria is often skewed. Moreover the distrust model actually calls for a great deal of political skills rather than professional skills (if one can differentiate between the two).
Given this scenario, I feel that corruption is a secondary symptom... Its like treating the fever instead of the TB... Anna Hazare is trying to use corruption to try and siphon out the dirt in the system... After all, its easy to trace a problem through a symptom rather than trying to fight it out directly.
All said, I will still stand by you when in need. But I feel we should have the right expectations... First class men recruit first class men... Second class men recruit third class men... And if that is happening more frequently, you might not be able to reach back the first class position (especially when it is over a generation!)...
Lastly, true the HR has had a significant role to play... I agree with you that the basic screening point of people (input check) is failing. And if there is corruption in the corporate, I would put it fairly and squarely on the HR, for their attitude has led to this situation. Their performance criteria should address this issue. Afterall, its a HR issue and not a mere corporate philosophy... It is indeed a pity!
From United States, Daphne
It is an interesting post! And I am really happy to see you 'fight' it out. You might single yourself out in the end, but it would definitely be worth it. Anything done to curb corruption is welcome.
And if you think this can be supported, well, let us know. We will try in our best way.
I feel the root of this issue lies elsewhere... and that is the lack of respect for education. Our development paradigm went a little off-track to begin with. And the 'second best' alternative along with corrupt politicians has taken the country to dogs. Corruption would thrive only if there is support at the top. A nonchalant government is a perfect 'stimulus' package for corruption. And although we have had great ministers, the subtle compromise of choices and quality reached a critical mass and that has snowballed now into the huge rackets of corruption. One sees this point being raised time and again... HR being an 'everybodys zone'... In other words, we have degraded our systems to the extent that we don't know what the value of education should be. Most engineers in our country are not even close to all the areas of engineering. In fact, the fly-by-night engineering schools have made it possible to lower the entry barriers, but have not helped ensure the high quality required of the product. Moreover, from a demand perspective (of engineering graduates), the focus of our market has always been to 'run the show' rather than to 'create the show'. Its like comparing between making a new car and driving or maintaining the car... Obviously a driver / mechanic needs very different and select skills. You do that a little too often, and you enter into a loop... Thats happening now.
Now this is a vicious circle... the lack of respect is due to the surplus supply, something that comes due to excessive population. Anyone is fond of having a highly qualified individual for peanuts... The human resource department seldom says that we don't need a graduate, but even a 12th std. student would perform well in a job. This is where they are not understanding the value of education themselves... Moreover, the fly-by-night schools that are springing up in the country are only worsening the scenario... They are abusing education further! Just see it for yourself... You see posts in the Ascent that almost always call for graduates, while those in the Gulf rarely insist on graduates (largely diploma).
Our governance model is largely 'imported' and this is a huge cause of concern. It is a case of an inappropriate management system. Worked for the British, but might not be the best here. And our essential system is based on distrust rather than trust... If the reservation window takes too long at the railways station, people say he is not doing his work well, or even that he might be from the 'elevated' categories... Our model makes us run down our own people. This is another problem because our performance appraisal criteria is often skewed. Moreover the distrust model actually calls for a great deal of political skills rather than professional skills (if one can differentiate between the two).
Given this scenario, I feel that corruption is a secondary symptom... Its like treating the fever instead of the TB... Anna Hazare is trying to use corruption to try and siphon out the dirt in the system... After all, its easy to trace a problem through a symptom rather than trying to fight it out directly.
All said, I will still stand by you when in need. But I feel we should have the right expectations... First class men recruit first class men... Second class men recruit third class men... And if that is happening more frequently, you might not be able to reach back the first class position (especially when it is over a generation!)...
Lastly, true the HR has had a significant role to play... I agree with you that the basic screening point of people (input check) is failing. And if there is corruption in the corporate, I would put it fairly and squarely on the HR, for their attitude has led to this situation. Their performance criteria should address this issue. Afterall, its a HR issue and not a mere corporate philosophy... It is indeed a pity!
From United States, Daphne
Thanks for the appreciation. The incident which I mentioned had happened with my dear Dad,he worked with Central Government. It was matter of dignity for him. He chose to live with the consequence rather be part of something which opposed his principles. Small drops make ocean.Similarly, small actions will definitely bring in fresh air.
This topic has been close to my heart since my childhood since me and my sisters saw a lot (in terms of my father's struggle).but what we learnt out of it was never to give up. Brighter side was that he did later on find people who actually supported him though they were small in numbers. Finally, after many years he did succeed -that's all mattered to us.
I was tempted to share this experience thus which is etched in our personal lives
From India, Vadodara
This topic has been close to my heart since my childhood since me and my sisters saw a lot (in terms of my father's struggle).but what we learnt out of it was never to give up. Brighter side was that he did later on find people who actually supported him though they were small in numbers. Finally, after many years he did succeed -that's all mattered to us.
I was tempted to share this experience thus which is etched in our personal lives
From India, Vadodara
Hello Good. HR.Associates,
You can count on ME in any of your efforts......period--NO IFs & BUTs.
Reg S. Bhaskar's comments, let me answer him in his own philosophical way vis-a-vis his comments: "No one can finish anybody's careers. It is their deed which decides their life, career, growth, fall, etc..........."
He is right--NONE is responsible for another's actions/decisions/future--however one wants to 'define' it. But it's also true that one gets into situations where he/she HAS TO FACE THE EFFECTS/CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR 'DEEDS'....if the deeds are positive, they get into situations that are pleasing/positive & into mentally excruciating/negative situations if the 'deeds' were negative/unethical/immoral. And invariably, in such situations other persons are & will be involved. Like the Bible says: As you Sow, so you Reap. If one causes harm to another person, this person HAS to get into a situation where he/she HAS to face such a situation himself/herself--NO OTHER WAY. Hinduism calls this as 'Law of Karma'.
So now applying this to the current topic under discussion, MAYBE THE TIME FOR THE CORRUPT IN HR HAS COME THRU PEOPLE LIKE Good. HR.Associates TO GET A TASTE OF THEIR OWN MEDICINE?
If one thinks this is all philosophy--far away from the reality/practical [unfortunately the 'definition' of these words have changed over time I guess]--nothing can be far from truth. All I can suggest to such people is to recollect the not-so-very-recent past of the many scamsters who are now in Jails. Each of them behaved & lived like REAL RAJAS....and where are they now? And GOK how many more will be following this lot into jails.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
You can count on ME in any of your efforts......period--NO IFs & BUTs.
Reg S. Bhaskar's comments, let me answer him in his own philosophical way vis-a-vis his comments: "No one can finish anybody's careers. It is their deed which decides their life, career, growth, fall, etc..........."
He is right--NONE is responsible for another's actions/decisions/future--however one wants to 'define' it. But it's also true that one gets into situations where he/she HAS TO FACE THE EFFECTS/CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR 'DEEDS'....if the deeds are positive, they get into situations that are pleasing/positive & into mentally excruciating/negative situations if the 'deeds' were negative/unethical/immoral. And invariably, in such situations other persons are & will be involved. Like the Bible says: As you Sow, so you Reap. If one causes harm to another person, this person HAS to get into a situation where he/she HAS to face such a situation himself/herself--NO OTHER WAY. Hinduism calls this as 'Law of Karma'.
So now applying this to the current topic under discussion, MAYBE THE TIME FOR THE CORRUPT IN HR HAS COME THRU PEOPLE LIKE Good. HR.Associates TO GET A TASTE OF THEIR OWN MEDICINE?
If one thinks this is all philosophy--far away from the reality/practical [unfortunately the 'definition' of these words have changed over time I guess]--nothing can be far from truth. All I can suggest to such people is to recollect the not-so-very-recent past of the many scamsters who are now in Jails. Each of them behaved & lived like REAL RAJAS....and where are they now? And GOK how many more will be following this lot into jails.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
You are very true Mr. Sateesh. If we are true to ourselves and have control on us, then we need to worry about others. The world is nothing but a mirror. If we smile, surely the image of ours in the mirror will also smile.
My intention of telling to Mr. Good HR associates to be cautious, is to keep him in control over the speed which should not go against him. Obviously the corrupted culprits (who damaged his name as well as the entire community name too) must be punished, in which I too have not having any second opinion.
Now also I am repeatedly cautioning Mr. Good HR Associates to act wisely and move ahead, while trying to trap others. Keep your records strong.
One post was placed here in this forum by Mr. Karthik (jknhr) about Karunanidhi. In that about 41 years back in one hospital one baby girl took birth at a hospital and the mother name is Rajathi and in Father's name was mentioned as M. Karunanidhi, who is that Karunanidhi was the small news published in a magazine, eventhough the message was true, the editor does not have any proof, hence he was dragged to court and arrested. But for the same baby girl (Kanimozhi), Mr. M.Karunanidhi, ex-CM of Tamil Nadu lost his CM Post & fame.
It should not happen to you. Take Care.
Alll the best.
From India, Kumbakonam
My intention of telling to Mr. Good HR associates to be cautious, is to keep him in control over the speed which should not go against him. Obviously the corrupted culprits (who damaged his name as well as the entire community name too) must be punished, in which I too have not having any second opinion.
Now also I am repeatedly cautioning Mr. Good HR Associates to act wisely and move ahead, while trying to trap others. Keep your records strong.
One post was placed here in this forum by Mr. Karthik (jknhr) about Karunanidhi. In that about 41 years back in one hospital one baby girl took birth at a hospital and the mother name is Rajathi and in Father's name was mentioned as M. Karunanidhi, who is that Karunanidhi was the small news published in a magazine, eventhough the message was true, the editor does not have any proof, hence he was dragged to court and arrested. But for the same baby girl (Kanimozhi), Mr. M.Karunanidhi, ex-CM of Tamil Nadu lost his CM Post & fame.
It should not happen to you. Take Care.
Alll the best.
From India, Kumbakonam
You definitely have a point S. Bhaskar.
It does pay to 'halt' once in a while...look around....and then move forward again. Such a strategy not only gives one the time to review, ponder, rest, change tack--if needed-- and then follow the goal again with renewed vigour.
At least it worked for me--on many occasions. I recollect many [including close ones, siblings] who wrote me off once I began taking a stand on corruption in the way I conduct my business AS WELL AS how I live my life. Such relationships were thrown by the wayside [NOT by me, but of their own accord], but I still exist today....with clients who are clean.
I recollect a Sanskrit Quote here: Dharmo rakshati rakshitaha--Truth protects those who protect Truth [though the 'dharma' in this quote covers a whole gamut of other aspects....that's beside the point in this context].
What Shalini mentioned basically corroborates this aspect of life & in the way we conduct our lives.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
It does pay to 'halt' once in a while...look around....and then move forward again. Such a strategy not only gives one the time to review, ponder, rest, change tack--if needed-- and then follow the goal again with renewed vigour.
At least it worked for me--on many occasions. I recollect many [including close ones, siblings] who wrote me off once I began taking a stand on corruption in the way I conduct my business AS WELL AS how I live my life. Such relationships were thrown by the wayside [NOT by me, but of their own accord], but I still exist today....with clients who are clean.
I recollect a Sanskrit Quote here: Dharmo rakshati rakshitaha--Truth protects those who protect Truth [though the 'dharma' in this quote covers a whole gamut of other aspects....that's beside the point in this context].
What Shalini mentioned basically corroborates this aspect of life & in the way we conduct our lives.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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