Vrishi has posed the question //......If a person does not want to change, how can we make him change? And that too attitude which is one of the inbuilt traits?
Why blame the HR person for that?
During the time of interview only, that trait surfaces by way of questions
That time only the decision has to be made ..... //
Vrishi :
None is blaming a HR guy. It is only the suggestions of proven ways of mentoring. Despite efforts, if a guy does not want to change, he has to face the consequences.
Also would like to know, are you referring a case in reality or posing a general question....
Rgds Venkat
From India, Mumbai
2Why blame the HR person for that?
During the time of interview only, that trait surfaces by way of questions
That time only the decision has to be made ..... //
Vrishi :
None is blaming a HR guy. It is only the suggestions of proven ways of mentoring. Despite efforts, if a guy does not want to change, he has to face the consequences.
Also would like to know, are you referring a case in reality or posing a general question....
Rgds Venkat
From India, Mumbai
Hi Vrishi & other friends,
Thanks for your comments and views! Venkat, thanks for your analysis. I or anybody in the interaction sofar as not blamed the HR! But I have a question? THIS ATTITUDE QUESTION IS NOT THERE WITH AN HR PERSON? I am sure this may kick off many angry burst of views and reactions from my HR friends!
Sorry friends! It applies to all! Why do you think a person's attitude cannot be changed? All persons may not be same. You may be able to change the attitude of one person very fast but to change another person's attitude may take longer time! But it doesn't mean that he can not be changed!
Vrishi....do you think that if a person looks for a vertical growth, it is bad or wrong? Have you not aspired for a vertical growth at the beginning of your career? I am sure you did! But the reality is once the person gets into his job, he realises how difficult or easy to have vertical growth and he will definitely amends his attitude and his approach! In my opinion, it is not bad or wrong to aspire for a vertical growth! If I am confident of my abilities, then why not I aspire for the vertical growth? If I express it openly during my interview, would you like to discard me terming my attitude is not right? I have seen in my 30 years of industrial experience, people who have achieved the vertical growth. A person who came to me 10 years back for a meagre salary of Rs.3000/- is now drawing a salary of Rs. 1.40 Lakhs per month! He acknowledges the help and support I gave him in achieving this mile stone. I have numerous instances like this in my long span of service.
HR person is the one who is in between the employee and the management and hence I term his or her responsibility is more in shaping the employee for the growth of the organisation. I am refering to the people who selected this HR Profession with passion and not with compulsion! A true HR person in my opinion becomes the second PARENT of the employee!
I request you all youngsters, put your heart and soul into this noble profession of HR then you will see how you can change the attitudes of the most arrogant person!
-Srinaren
From India, Bangalore
Thanks for your comments and views! Venkat, thanks for your analysis. I or anybody in the interaction sofar as not blamed the HR! But I have a question? THIS ATTITUDE QUESTION IS NOT THERE WITH AN HR PERSON? I am sure this may kick off many angry burst of views and reactions from my HR friends!
Sorry friends! It applies to all! Why do you think a person's attitude cannot be changed? All persons may not be same. You may be able to change the attitude of one person very fast but to change another person's attitude may take longer time! But it doesn't mean that he can not be changed!
Vrishi....do you think that if a person looks for a vertical growth, it is bad or wrong? Have you not aspired for a vertical growth at the beginning of your career? I am sure you did! But the reality is once the person gets into his job, he realises how difficult or easy to have vertical growth and he will definitely amends his attitude and his approach! In my opinion, it is not bad or wrong to aspire for a vertical growth! If I am confident of my abilities, then why not I aspire for the vertical growth? If I express it openly during my interview, would you like to discard me terming my attitude is not right? I have seen in my 30 years of industrial experience, people who have achieved the vertical growth. A person who came to me 10 years back for a meagre salary of Rs.3000/- is now drawing a salary of Rs. 1.40 Lakhs per month! He acknowledges the help and support I gave him in achieving this mile stone. I have numerous instances like this in my long span of service.
HR person is the one who is in between the employee and the management and hence I term his or her responsibility is more in shaping the employee for the growth of the organisation. I am refering to the people who selected this HR Profession with passion and not with compulsion! A true HR person in my opinion becomes the second PARENT of the employee!
I request you all youngsters, put your heart and soul into this noble profession of HR then you will see how you can change the attitudes of the most arrogant person!
-Srinaren
From India, Bangalore
Dear All,
It was very interesting to read all of your postings in this topic. Let me put across my opinions too.
Lets not define attitude, the way we understand it through personal experience alone. Lets not define it as per our organizations requirement. May be we need to appreciate it, as it is.
I request all of you speakup on who is qualified to comment about Attitude. Be it it is negative or positive attitude, right or wrong attitude.
As a HR professional, what are the skillsets and personality attributes that we need to carry to comment about someone else's attitude.
Can we discuss that too.
Regards
Ravikanth
From India, Hyderabad
It was very interesting to read all of your postings in this topic. Let me put across my opinions too.
Lets not define attitude, the way we understand it through personal experience alone. Lets not define it as per our organizations requirement. May be we need to appreciate it, as it is.
I request all of you speakup on who is qualified to comment about Attitude. Be it it is negative or positive attitude, right or wrong attitude.
As a HR professional, what are the skillsets and personality attributes that we need to carry to comment about someone else's attitude.
Can we discuss that too.
Regards
Ravikanth
From India, Hyderabad
Dear all
Thank you all for your responses.
As Venkat,Sri and others have said ,I also believe that desiring vertical growth is not wrong,( the person whom we rejected was asking for certain designation as a condition for joining any ways we leave this case here).
The question is what is right attitude and how do we decide if someone has that. Do buisness needs and deadlines let us always hire the right attitude candidate? what when we do bulk hiring? Every company cannot afford to try with employees and fire them if they dont have RIGHT attitude.
Its true that 100% aptitude and attitude cannot be expected, i would rather say such a situation is not desirable:).but people in key positions must have the right attitude and that includes very much people from HR( as suggested).
I have also seen that good communication skills gets you a job in HR but what about prespective isnt that important? Sri rightly mentions about the seriousness of HR function.
I think that we need to decide what are the attitude traits we are looking for and have some structured method for evaluating them rather then going all by gut.Behavioural interviews may be?
I find myself most of the times incapable of giving an outright judgement on some ones attitude.
Also what is the commitment we show towards hiring "right attitude", would we ever compromise or not.
From India, Pune
Thank you all for your responses.
As Venkat,Sri and others have said ,I also believe that desiring vertical growth is not wrong,( the person whom we rejected was asking for certain designation as a condition for joining any ways we leave this case here).
The question is what is right attitude and how do we decide if someone has that. Do buisness needs and deadlines let us always hire the right attitude candidate? what when we do bulk hiring? Every company cannot afford to try with employees and fire them if they dont have RIGHT attitude.
Its true that 100% aptitude and attitude cannot be expected, i would rather say such a situation is not desirable:).but people in key positions must have the right attitude and that includes very much people from HR( as suggested).
I have also seen that good communication skills gets you a job in HR but what about prespective isnt that important? Sri rightly mentions about the seriousness of HR function.
I think that we need to decide what are the attitude traits we are looking for and have some structured method for evaluating them rather then going all by gut.Behavioural interviews may be?
I find myself most of the times incapable of giving an outright judgement on some ones attitude.
Also what is the commitment we show towards hiring "right attitude", would we ever compromise or not.
From India, Pune
Hi Srinaren
First of all if you read my views carefully i said for the person looking for vertical growth, he/she could be put in such a position where he is not that much involved in team activities . If the job permits so.
Secondly do you think it is only the job of the HR Department for mentoring, or to be a """""""""""SECOND PARENT""""""""""""""""""""""?????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????
If that is the case, then i Can safely say that we are living in a utopian world cos the employee spends most of their time not with the HR Department but their own department.
Tell me Srinaren have you ever been a "SECOND Parent"???????????
regards
rishi
From India
First of all if you read my views carefully i said for the person looking for vertical growth, he/she could be put in such a position where he is not that much involved in team activities . If the job permits so.
Secondly do you think it is only the job of the HR Department for mentoring, or to be a """""""""""SECOND PARENT""""""""""""""""""""""?????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????
If that is the case, then i Can safely say that we are living in a utopian world cos the employee spends most of their time not with the HR Department but their own department.
Tell me Srinaren have you ever been a "SECOND Parent"???????????
regards
rishi
From India
Hi Srinaren
I had just answered a specific question
Showing a lackadaisical attitude in the interview itself...:coming to the interview for the sake of the interview"........as stated by NeelKeshaw
These type of persons should be fired at the interview round itself rather than being a "SECOND PARENT" and wasting management's more money
It is better to take action at the first step itself. But that comes reading the mails carefully in the first instance.
regards
From India
I had just answered a specific question
Showing a lackadaisical attitude in the interview itself...:coming to the interview for the sake of the interview"........as stated by NeelKeshaw
These type of persons should be fired at the interview round itself rather than being a "SECOND PARENT" and wasting management's more money
It is better to take action at the first step itself. But that comes reading the mails carefully in the first instance.
regards
From India
Hi :
What is the right attitude ? Before the forum shares its views, i feel it would be appropriate that you share....
- What according to you is the right attitude or what are you looking for
as right attitude in the candiates being recruited by you.
Rgds Venkat
From India, Mumbai
What is the right attitude ? Before the forum shares its views, i feel it would be appropriate that you share....
- What according to you is the right attitude or what are you looking for
as right attitude in the candiates being recruited by you.
Rgds Venkat
From India, Mumbai
Dear all :
I missed to read a few postings by the time I posted my last comment.
Hi Srinaren : I fully agree with you that a person's attitude can be changed 'given the time' to change him. Your comments are quite valid and as you rightly poined out that any one who selected HR profession with passion, would love to be Second Parent, provided the time taken to effect the change is acceptable to the management.
What Vrishi has repeated been seeking an answer for is ... can we change a person who do not 'want' to change ? ... It is quite important that we need the willlingness and cooperation of the one who needs change. If it is not coming forth despite your efforts, it is simply a case of NOT WANTING to change. For such cases, only time can have its effects. Such characters will understand only by going thru realities. Then the ' change' will come out of 'realisation'. In a corporate enviro, how many of us are ready to wait and watch the change happening in a 'not-wanting-change' employee. I believe it is in this context vrishi has stated so. AM I right in interpreting you Vrishi... ??
Now I find that the discussion has drifted off from a real case to general discussions. Ofourse this is enlightening.
Neelkshaw is clear now about his decisions taken on the intial referred cases. He as well as Ravikant has posed a few thought provoking queries as under :
1. As a HR professional, what are the skillsets and personality attributes that we need to carry to comment about someone else's attitude.
2. what are the attitude traits we are looking for and have some structured method for evaluating them rather than going all by gut. Behavioural interviews may be? (this query will get answered by answering the 1st question itself. Hence the forum can address their comments / suggestions for 1 & 3).
3. What is the commitment we show towards hiring "right attitude", would we ever compromise or not.
I also would request Neelkshaw in particular and others in general .....
- What according to you is the right attitude or what are you looking for
as right attitude in the candiates being recruited by you.
With regards
k Venkat
From India, Mumbai
I missed to read a few postings by the time I posted my last comment.
Hi Srinaren : I fully agree with you that a person's attitude can be changed 'given the time' to change him. Your comments are quite valid and as you rightly poined out that any one who selected HR profession with passion, would love to be Second Parent, provided the time taken to effect the change is acceptable to the management.
What Vrishi has repeated been seeking an answer for is ... can we change a person who do not 'want' to change ? ... It is quite important that we need the willlingness and cooperation of the one who needs change. If it is not coming forth despite your efforts, it is simply a case of NOT WANTING to change. For such cases, only time can have its effects. Such characters will understand only by going thru realities. Then the ' change' will come out of 'realisation'. In a corporate enviro, how many of us are ready to wait and watch the change happening in a 'not-wanting-change' employee. I believe it is in this context vrishi has stated so. AM I right in interpreting you Vrishi... ??
Now I find that the discussion has drifted off from a real case to general discussions. Ofourse this is enlightening.
Neelkshaw is clear now about his decisions taken on the intial referred cases. He as well as Ravikant has posed a few thought provoking queries as under :
1. As a HR professional, what are the skillsets and personality attributes that we need to carry to comment about someone else's attitude.
2. what are the attitude traits we are looking for and have some structured method for evaluating them rather than going all by gut. Behavioural interviews may be? (this query will get answered by answering the 1st question itself. Hence the forum can address their comments / suggestions for 1 & 3).
3. What is the commitment we show towards hiring "right attitude", would we ever compromise or not.
I also would request Neelkshaw in particular and others in general .....
- What according to you is the right attitude or what are you looking for
as right attitude in the candiates being recruited by you.
With regards
k Venkat
From India, Mumbai
Hi Venkat
You have assumed what I meant
These days while recruiting the general thing is "hire for attitude, train for skills"
It depends on the position and what attitude is required for that position which should be looked at while recruiting.
Basically the inbuilt traits viz. attitude and motives can be gauged during an interview and it is decided there in whether a person is going to be recruited(depending on the attitude)
The behaviour is mainly gauged during an interview process
A person's competence can be developed during his/her career but it is very difficult to develop competency(behaviour).
A person who does not have the attitude of working in a team, having a sound temparement will find it difficult in adjusting to such a scenario.
During the interview process if the candidate's attitude mapping is done, based on that the candidate can be put in a suitable position.
For e.g. if a person likes to work alone, is a high achiever, that person can be put as a salesman or in the R & D Department.
If a person is mixing type , loves to work in teams, he can be put in projects.
If a person is hesitant to take decisions , he can be put in a team where the decision is taken based on the inputs of all the members. There the person might open up more and indulge in Risky Shift phenomenon. He cannot be put in a leadership position.
What I mean to say is that a person's attitude and behaviour if gauged properly in the interview, can be put to best use in the interest of the organisation as well as the individual. If the competency mapping is done before the interview, then the attitude of the person vis-a-vis the position can be mapped .
This is not foolproof but no system is 100% correct.
regards
From India
You have assumed what I meant
These days while recruiting the general thing is "hire for attitude, train for skills"
It depends on the position and what attitude is required for that position which should be looked at while recruiting.
Basically the inbuilt traits viz. attitude and motives can be gauged during an interview and it is decided there in whether a person is going to be recruited(depending on the attitude)
The behaviour is mainly gauged during an interview process
A person's competence can be developed during his/her career but it is very difficult to develop competency(behaviour).
A person who does not have the attitude of working in a team, having a sound temparement will find it difficult in adjusting to such a scenario.
During the interview process if the candidate's attitude mapping is done, based on that the candidate can be put in a suitable position.
For e.g. if a person likes to work alone, is a high achiever, that person can be put as a salesman or in the R & D Department.
If a person is mixing type , loves to work in teams, he can be put in projects.
If a person is hesitant to take decisions , he can be put in a team where the decision is taken based on the inputs of all the members. There the person might open up more and indulge in Risky Shift phenomenon. He cannot be put in a leadership position.
What I mean to say is that a person's attitude and behaviour if gauged properly in the interview, can be put to best use in the interest of the organisation as well as the individual. If the competency mapping is done before the interview, then the attitude of the person vis-a-vis the position can be mapped .
This is not foolproof but no system is 100% correct.
regards
From India
Hi Neel,
I found this is happening with me also.
one of my reportee has always mob on and do less work at desk. When she gets screwed up she bunks for two to three days.
why can't we have an test based on interpersonal skills with actual test.
It contain 30% of whole test which contain the queries about general topics and find out how they react to the situation for which we may find the attitude of the person to some extent i mean.
Rgds,
Prans
From India
I found this is happening with me also.
one of my reportee has always mob on and do less work at desk. When she gets screwed up she bunks for two to three days.
why can't we have an test based on interpersonal skills with actual test.
It contain 30% of whole test which contain the queries about general topics and find out how they react to the situation for which we may find the attitude of the person to some extent i mean.
Rgds,
Prans
From India
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