Dear All,
Would need a clarifications on the below case:-
We have contractors working with us for years for some AMC of machines. few contractors are working for carpentry work and for buling maintenance (Same as the concept of AMC).
We are giving them the detailed scope of work and than after finishing the project, we were making payments. Please advise on the following points:
1-Do we need to show their names in our RC under CLRA ACT? :-DLC has been threating us to add their names in the RC.
2- Do we have to deduct their PF & ESIC ? :- we dnt know how many numbers of employee are coming on a particular day as we are much more bothered about the completion of the assigned work.
It may happen that the same employee from the particular job contractor is working with us for 10 days or rest 20 days with some other organization, do we need to deduction the PF &ESIC in this case?
It may also happen that for 30 days or 31 days they might be working with us.
Please let me know in case if any further details are required on this subject as this is very important and urgent for us.
Please advise.
Regards
Ranjeet
From India, New Delhi
11Would need a clarifications on the below case:-
We have contractors working with us for years for some AMC of machines. few contractors are working for carpentry work and for buling maintenance (Same as the concept of AMC).
We are giving them the detailed scope of work and than after finishing the project, we were making payments. Please advise on the following points:
1-Do we need to show their names in our RC under CLRA ACT? :-DLC has been threating us to add their names in the RC.
2- Do we have to deduct their PF & ESIC ? :- we dnt know how many numbers of employee are coming on a particular day as we are much more bothered about the completion of the assigned work.
It may happen that the same employee from the particular job contractor is working with us for 10 days or rest 20 days with some other organization, do we need to deduction the PF &ESIC in this case?
It may also happen that for 30 days or 31 days they might be working with us.
Please let me know in case if any further details are required on this subject as this is very important and urgent for us.
Please advise.
Regards
Ranjeet
From India, New Delhi
Sir,
1. Kindly intimate what is meant by "RC" as you have mentioned in your above remarks.
2. You have not indicated whether the unit to which you have referred is covered under ESI Act, 1948 as well as under EPF & MP Act, 1952.
3. The employees engaged through contractors/immediate employers are covered/coverable under ESI Act, 1948 as well as under EPF & MP Act, 1952. The above Acts do not make any distinction between temporary/casual/contractor employees and there is no qualifying period of service for becoming employees under above Act. The only condition is that the employees must be within range of wage ceiling as laid down under respects Acts and the work for which engaged must be relating to or in connection with the work of the said factory/establishment.
From India, Noida
1. Kindly intimate what is meant by "RC" as you have mentioned in your above remarks.
2. You have not indicated whether the unit to which you have referred is covered under ESI Act, 1948 as well as under EPF & MP Act, 1952.
3. The employees engaged through contractors/immediate employers are covered/coverable under ESI Act, 1948 as well as under EPF & MP Act, 1952. The above Acts do not make any distinction between temporary/casual/contractor employees and there is no qualifying period of service for becoming employees under above Act. The only condition is that the employees must be within range of wage ceiling as laid down under respects Acts and the work for which engaged must be relating to or in connection with the work of the said factory/establishment.
From India, Noida
Dear Friend,
If your organisation is covered under PF / ESI its automatically covered for all the contractors. While awarding the contract works first verify whether the contractor is having PF / ESI registration. If the new project or organisation is also while awarding any contract works first observe the PF / ESI registered contractors is safe.
Regards,
PBS KUMAR
From India, Kakinada
If your organisation is covered under PF / ESI its automatically covered for all the contractors. While awarding the contract works first verify whether the contractor is having PF / ESI registration. If the new project or organisation is also while awarding any contract works first observe the PF / ESI registered contractors is safe.
Regards,
PBS KUMAR
From India, Kakinada
By virtue of definition of employee under P.F & ESI Acts, a contract worker is prima facie covered under both the Acts and the principal employer is liable to pay contribution for them.This is the rule. The exceptions to this rule depends up on the terms and nature of contract, nature of manpower employed and duration of engagement of contract workers etc.It is to be decided on the facts and circumstances of each case. It is very difficult to reply precisely on such issues.
B.Saikumar
HR & IR Advisor
NaviMumbai
From India, Mumbai
B.Saikumar
HR & IR Advisor
NaviMumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dear All,
thanks for your valuable comments.
Please take an example to clear the issue.
Suppose we have awarded a X amount work to Y contractor. Just we are more concerned about the work only. Once work done at our premises, we are releasing the payments.
How many workers have finished that work we dont have an idea? may be it would be possible that it was finished by 3 worker in 3 days or 10 worker in 1 day. Do we need to deduct & submit the PF &ESIC as a contractor and submit details to the principal employer. It may happen that the each day we have different employees?
we have consulted a lawyer who has suggested us that PF is not applicable to the work which is either sporadic in nature or we for a particular work if different employee has been employed on different days.
RC means Registration Certificate.
Please aadvise.
Regards
Ranjeet
From India, New Delhi
thanks for your valuable comments.
Please take an example to clear the issue.
Suppose we have awarded a X amount work to Y contractor. Just we are more concerned about the work only. Once work done at our premises, we are releasing the payments.
How many workers have finished that work we dont have an idea? may be it would be possible that it was finished by 3 worker in 3 days or 10 worker in 1 day. Do we need to deduct & submit the PF &ESIC as a contractor and submit details to the principal employer. It may happen that the each day we have different employees?
we have consulted a lawyer who has suggested us that PF is not applicable to the work which is either sporadic in nature or we for a particular work if different employee has been employed on different days.
RC means Registration Certificate.
Please aadvise.
Regards
Ranjeet
From India, New Delhi
Sir(s),
1. As you have mentioned that you have consulted some lawyer who have advised that EPF & MP Act is not applicable in such 'sporadic" employees as engaged by you, I think, you will follow the advice as tendered by your said learned legal counsel.
2. However, with due regard, I have different opinion and in my opinion, there is no exemption to such employees as defined by you as "sporadic" in your above mention comments. There is no infancy period so far as application of ESI & EPF Acts are concerned. There are number of occupations viz.-foundries, brick-klins, etc. where the strength of workers may be high or low on several occasions due to nature of work. But all such units and employees in such units/factories are covered under above enactments.
3. There may be cases, where Hon'ble courts have clearly decided that any employee doing work in factory/unit premises is supposed to work under supervision of the principal employer and in addition, there may also be court decisions where it is clearly mentioned that any person engaged for wages for the work or in connection with the work of the factory/unit is covered under above labour laws right from the day he joins the employment (even through contractor).
4. However, as a law abiding citizen having interest in the study of labour laws, I will suggest you that if you have any doubt you may also seek the opinion and directions in writing from appropriate offices of EPFO as well as ESIC in the matter so that at the time when verification of records is conducted by any authority (like the directions of DLC as mentioned by you in your comments), there may not be any objection including liability of contribution, interest and damages under above enactments. At that time it will not be feasible legally or practically to recover the said amounts of contribution from such "sporadic" employees or their contractors and even the employees share of contribution is required to be deposited by the principal employer .
From India, Noida
1. As you have mentioned that you have consulted some lawyer who have advised that EPF & MP Act is not applicable in such 'sporadic" employees as engaged by you, I think, you will follow the advice as tendered by your said learned legal counsel.
2. However, with due regard, I have different opinion and in my opinion, there is no exemption to such employees as defined by you as "sporadic" in your above mention comments. There is no infancy period so far as application of ESI & EPF Acts are concerned. There are number of occupations viz.-foundries, brick-klins, etc. where the strength of workers may be high or low on several occasions due to nature of work. But all such units and employees in such units/factories are covered under above enactments.
3. There may be cases, where Hon'ble courts have clearly decided that any employee doing work in factory/unit premises is supposed to work under supervision of the principal employer and in addition, there may also be court decisions where it is clearly mentioned that any person engaged for wages for the work or in connection with the work of the factory/unit is covered under above labour laws right from the day he joins the employment (even through contractor).
4. However, as a law abiding citizen having interest in the study of labour laws, I will suggest you that if you have any doubt you may also seek the opinion and directions in writing from appropriate offices of EPFO as well as ESIC in the matter so that at the time when verification of records is conducted by any authority (like the directions of DLC as mentioned by you in your comments), there may not be any objection including liability of contribution, interest and damages under above enactments. At that time it will not be feasible legally or practically to recover the said amounts of contribution from such "sporadic" employees or their contractors and even the employees share of contribution is required to be deposited by the principal employer .
From India, Noida
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