Respected Seniors and my dear fellow members
I would like to invite your views on a very common problem which is perhaps faced by all HR professionals .There are bound to be some employees in every company who are there with the company since its inception and hence are in the good books of the management(most of the time).They think they have the liberty to mend and break the office discipline the way they want to.Things become even more difficult as 9 out of 10 times company is very dependent on this particular resource and cannot afford to loose him on a short notice.
Moreover if the HR person like me is junior to him in experience and age then it becomes all the more difficult to enforce discipline.In my company there some senior resources who refuse to abide by the basic rules like wearing an id card or signing the attendance register.Everyday I have to think of something new to convince them to follow this basic rule .When I inform the management about it they tell me that I need to handle them tactfully
I am in the process of learning the tricks of the trade but I would like to earnestly request you to help me out with this situation
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
From India, Pune
3I would like to invite your views on a very common problem which is perhaps faced by all HR professionals .There are bound to be some employees in every company who are there with the company since its inception and hence are in the good books of the management(most of the time).They think they have the liberty to mend and break the office discipline the way they want to.Things become even more difficult as 9 out of 10 times company is very dependent on this particular resource and cannot afford to loose him on a short notice.
Moreover if the HR person like me is junior to him in experience and age then it becomes all the more difficult to enforce discipline.In my company there some senior resources who refuse to abide by the basic rules like wearing an id card or signing the attendance register.Everyday I have to think of something new to convince them to follow this basic rule .When I inform the management about it they tell me that I need to handle them tactfully
I am in the process of learning the tricks of the trade but I would like to earnestly request you to help me out with this situation
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
From India, Pune
Hi ,
The problem you have mentioned pertains in every organization. Yes you have to be tactful , which means if you are unable to resolve it with humble request and polite approach, its high time to work in black and white.
you can write stinkers to them , with a CC to their reporting managers and the management body.
Hope this works
Good luck
Ankita Kohli
From India, New Delhi
The problem you have mentioned pertains in every organization. Yes you have to be tactful , which means if you are unable to resolve it with humble request and polite approach, its high time to work in black and white.
you can write stinkers to them , with a CC to their reporting managers and the management body.
Hope this works
Good luck
Ankita Kohli
From India, New Delhi
Respected Senior(Ankita)
Thank you for your suggestion.That can be a good way to tackle them but I saved that for future as I have just joined the organisation .Moreover time and again I need help from them regarding their team members performance related issues ,again for inputs on recruitment so I have to keep them warm also.
I will start sending them mails in black and white but politely,marking a copy to their senior(as you have mentioned) and then wait for the results.By doing so I will also have a record with me that I did remind them about the office rules and regulations
Thank you once again
Indrani Chakraborty
From India, Pune
Thank you for your suggestion.That can be a good way to tackle them but I saved that for future as I have just joined the organisation .Moreover time and again I need help from them regarding their team members performance related issues ,again for inputs on recruitment so I have to keep them warm also.
I will start sending them mails in black and white but politely,marking a copy to their senior(as you have mentioned) and then wait for the results.By doing so I will also have a record with me that I did remind them about the office rules and regulations
Thank you once again
Indrani Chakraborty
From India, Pune
HI Indrani........its tough to tackle these people.......who think due to them the company works and the kind of attitude they carry which only influences his team members......reflecting in their behaviours too
I have faced the same situation......I have arranged meetings with my director and the senior team.........about the new updates...giving them importance and explaining them how inspiring/influencing they are..........and arranged team meetings asking the senior people to take presentations on office etiquettes..dress sense...attendacne and discipline............i have asked each dept head to take classes............twice in a month......i can see lot of change in them now.......I THINK TACT/DIPLOMACY playes a vital role in handling these kind of typical people....Hope it was of some help to you........
From India, Hyderabad
I have faced the same situation......I have arranged meetings with my director and the senior team.........about the new updates...giving them importance and explaining them how inspiring/influencing they are..........and arranged team meetings asking the senior people to take presentations on office etiquettes..dress sense...attendacne and discipline............i have asked each dept head to take classes............twice in a month......i can see lot of change in them now.......I THINK TACT/DIPLOMACY playes a vital role in handling these kind of typical people....Hope it was of some help to you........
From India, Hyderabad
Respected Senior (Sari)
I must say your ideas are very good .I will definitely try to adopt a few of them and implement the same at workplace.You know where the problem lies anything that I tell them falls on deaf ears ,since they are the people who generate business for the company they take HR as a support function and they think all HR people are big fools!
One more problem that I face is the newcomers in the organisation tend to follow the senior people which is quite obvious and they adopt all the malpractices that their seniors have been following for ages.Like for eg no employee is allowed to listen to music at work as per instruction from the management but since 1 senior guy is doing that all other people have started doing the same
I was really at my wits end .I thank you once again for your wonderful advices.I just hope it works
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
From India, Pune
I must say your ideas are very good .I will definitely try to adopt a few of them and implement the same at workplace.You know where the problem lies anything that I tell them falls on deaf ears ,since they are the people who generate business for the company they take HR as a support function and they think all HR people are big fools!
One more problem that I face is the newcomers in the organisation tend to follow the senior people which is quite obvious and they adopt all the malpractices that their seniors have been following for ages.Like for eg no employee is allowed to listen to music at work as per instruction from the management but since 1 senior guy is doing that all other people have started doing the same
I was really at my wits end .I thank you once again for your wonderful advices.I just hope it works
Thanks and Regards
Indrani Chakraborty
From India, Pune
Well Well
Though this is a really good topic to debate, and I can write some long pages on it, but to be short and precise, there are somethings which we need to get it cleared:
1. I once told my Personnel manager to do this,, but straight away he told no. I was not happy with that as I wanted to do it and I thought whatever I am doing is good. Then one fine day I asked him about dat issue and he told me the reason for telling no, i.e he explained it to me in a very good manner, and I came to know that I did not look at that matter from the other point / side. So mostly we juniors fresh management people want to try many things, but the senior knows what is practically possible and what is not.
2. Well the next thing as UNUSUALINDU told is that, Seniors listening to music, or doing things apart from official work in office and juniors following the same. Here the problem is with more of junior or senior is really difficult to comment. A senior listening music will catch the attention of juniors. ok fine. But the senior must be just listening to music to destress, relax for just an hour / half an hour. and after that he must be working / slogging the rest of day. So the juniors here are failing to note the hard work done by senior and may be they persume that senior is enjoying. If the junior looks the whole day schedule of senior he can understand that senior has more responsibilities than junior. So the ethical way in this situation would be you discourage the juniors from listening to music.
Even my boss listens to music sometimes, and almost most of the day my boss is not at workplace busy in meetings, and at that time,, no one is at my workplace, so i cld listen to music, play my flash games but i know i have this work,, and if all work is done then i do involve in games, music, net etc.
No doubt there are also seniors who hate juniors just because juniors are most faster more educated than them, and some seniors resist change, show arrogance, NO always to juniors ideas.
The most ethical way would be to study the whole situation of your company , the management style, what management thinks is ethical,, like u go to complain about senior to some higher manager and u find himself playing games :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: then what,, u hav to presume that the senior got this inspiration from his SENIOR... am i correct?
So first througouly study your company and then make a decision in such cases to whom u can tell,, Not necessarily whatever is theoritically correct needs to be followed,, as practically something other happens.
UR SENIOR
or
UR JUNIOR..
From India, Pune
Though this is a really good topic to debate, and I can write some long pages on it, but to be short and precise, there are somethings which we need to get it cleared:
1. I once told my Personnel manager to do this,, but straight away he told no. I was not happy with that as I wanted to do it and I thought whatever I am doing is good. Then one fine day I asked him about dat issue and he told me the reason for telling no, i.e he explained it to me in a very good manner, and I came to know that I did not look at that matter from the other point / side. So mostly we juniors fresh management people want to try many things, but the senior knows what is practically possible and what is not.
2. Well the next thing as UNUSUALINDU told is that, Seniors listening to music, or doing things apart from official work in office and juniors following the same. Here the problem is with more of junior or senior is really difficult to comment. A senior listening music will catch the attention of juniors. ok fine. But the senior must be just listening to music to destress, relax for just an hour / half an hour. and after that he must be working / slogging the rest of day. So the juniors here are failing to note the hard work done by senior and may be they persume that senior is enjoying. If the junior looks the whole day schedule of senior he can understand that senior has more responsibilities than junior. So the ethical way in this situation would be you discourage the juniors from listening to music.
Even my boss listens to music sometimes, and almost most of the day my boss is not at workplace busy in meetings, and at that time,, no one is at my workplace, so i cld listen to music, play my flash games but i know i have this work,, and if all work is done then i do involve in games, music, net etc.
No doubt there are also seniors who hate juniors just because juniors are most faster more educated than them, and some seniors resist change, show arrogance, NO always to juniors ideas.
The most ethical way would be to study the whole situation of your company , the management style, what management thinks is ethical,, like u go to complain about senior to some higher manager and u find himself playing games :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: then what,, u hav to presume that the senior got this inspiration from his SENIOR... am i correct?
So first througouly study your company and then make a decision in such cases to whom u can tell,, Not necessarily whatever is theoritically correct needs to be followed,, as practically something other happens.
UR SENIOR
or
UR JUNIOR..
From India, Pune
You know where the problem lies anything that I tell them falls on deaf ears ,since they are the people who generate business for the company they take HR as a support function and they think all HR people are big fools!
The above sentence is really very true. ONLY IN CASE OF SOME INDUSTRIES... and I agree with you..
When I was working in manufacturing company the management consisted of THREE PEOPLE ,, PLANT MANAGER, COMMERCIAL MANAGER and HR MGR... but our HR had no say in anything,,, the major major objective of any manufacturing plant is OUTPUT and nothing else, even I had to forego my holidays,, without any overtime , common off etc... because if they as HR person give me a common off or overtime,, u just cant calculate the amount that they need to give other manufacturing supervisors ,,, it will be more than their monthly salary is supposed...
approx everyday working is of 10 hrs for supervisors,, whereas workers enjoy as they are covered by various acts ,,,etc... so every day calculate minimum 2 hrs OT,, and + working on holidays ,,HR does not give them ,,, but in ur company ur policy might be such as even if someone stays late u must be paying them
From India, Pune
The above sentence is really very true. ONLY IN CASE OF SOME INDUSTRIES... and I agree with you..
When I was working in manufacturing company the management consisted of THREE PEOPLE ,, PLANT MANAGER, COMMERCIAL MANAGER and HR MGR... but our HR had no say in anything,,, the major major objective of any manufacturing plant is OUTPUT and nothing else, even I had to forego my holidays,, without any overtime , common off etc... because if they as HR person give me a common off or overtime,, u just cant calculate the amount that they need to give other manufacturing supervisors ,,, it will be more than their monthly salary is supposed...
approx everyday working is of 10 hrs for supervisors,, whereas workers enjoy as they are covered by various acts ,,,etc... so every day calculate minimum 2 hrs OT,, and + working on holidays ,,HR does not give them ,,, but in ur company ur policy might be such as even if someone stays late u must be paying them
From India, Pune
In my company there some senior resources who refuse to abide by the basic rules like wearing an id card or signing the attendance register.Everyday I have to think of something new to convince them to follow this basic rule .When I inform the management about it they tell me that I need to handle them tactfully
this management tells us everytime,,, but my personnel manager was good enough to tell me,,, " RAVI,, dis will happen, and we cant do anything to stop it"
So then I had to change my thinking that in this Company I cannot implement HR policies etc.. so the best would be,, let me be concerned with my pay and work.. the rest can go to hell,,
with no support from management its useless to try and literally go against the management...
BUT HERE ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO ADVISE U ...
Again go to management and ask them that ur unable to do this and ask for their idea / advice / support.. may be this situation needs to be dealt with strategy which probably the management wants u to recoganise & work out .. because a simple job for management,, to tell any employee to stop listening to music or anyother thing,, but u need to deal this with extreme care, and in HR we also make some foes also.,, like the senior may presume that ur behind him to stop his listening to music,, and what if he informs you all other activities done by other seniors and ask you to stop it,,,,[this i have personally experienced, so i first see and study management then apply my brain,,, , ] may be these activities reach deep to management
management is very tough not easy...
From India, Pune
this management tells us everytime,,, but my personnel manager was good enough to tell me,,, " RAVI,, dis will happen, and we cant do anything to stop it"
So then I had to change my thinking that in this Company I cannot implement HR policies etc.. so the best would be,, let me be concerned with my pay and work.. the rest can go to hell,,
with no support from management its useless to try and literally go against the management...
BUT HERE ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO ADVISE U ...
Again go to management and ask them that ur unable to do this and ask for their idea / advice / support.. may be this situation needs to be dealt with strategy which probably the management wants u to recoganise & work out .. because a simple job for management,, to tell any employee to stop listening to music or anyother thing,, but u need to deal this with extreme care, and in HR we also make some foes also.,, like the senior may presume that ur behind him to stop his listening to music,, and what if he informs you all other activities done by other seniors and ask you to stop it,,,,[this i have personally experienced, so i first see and study management then apply my brain,,, , ] may be these activities reach deep to management
management is very tough not easy...
From India, Pune
well if you decide to write any letter to your employees, just tell me ,,, I would prepare some letters [with masala] and give it to you... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
From India, Pune
From India, Pune
Hi Indrawn...
i appreciate you have dared to tackle them.
I have come across such culture in two companies. I learned few strategies on my own . It did work very well for me.
issues like this do not have ready made solutions. we have to customize our strategies so as to suit the location/history.profile of the people.
you have joined that organization recently. wait for six months.
do something for them in these six months. they too will be having few issues which have not been addressed by the mment for long time. they should see you as a person who is committed to their needs/problems.
you cannot correct them unless you win them. remember they have developed these attitude over period of so many years.
they are aware that you are doing your job by asking them to be disciplined. inside their heart they too want stick to odoingrules. but their ego is not allowing them to give in to a new person.
do something good for them. let that be their justification for compromising with that ego.
yes sounds very simple. but not easy . but never fails, and takes time too..
the above strategies of mine gave me rich results . it helped to change the culture of the organizations which are 30 years old.
sending memos etc are negative discipline strategies which are no more useful.
most importantly you need not succeed in in your efforts of doin good for them. your public efforts are enough to project a positive image of yours.
so keep trying..all the best
prashanth shetty
i appreciate you have dared to tackle them.
I have come across such culture in two companies. I learned few strategies on my own . It did work very well for me.
issues like this do not have ready made solutions. we have to customize our strategies so as to suit the location/history.profile of the people.
you have joined that organization recently. wait for six months.
do something for them in these six months. they too will be having few issues which have not been addressed by the mment for long time. they should see you as a person who is committed to their needs/problems.
you cannot correct them unless you win them. remember they have developed these attitude over period of so many years.
they are aware that you are doing your job by asking them to be disciplined. inside their heart they too want stick to odoingrules. but their ego is not allowing them to give in to a new person.
do something good for them. let that be their justification for compromising with that ego.
yes sounds very simple. but not easy . but never fails, and takes time too..
the above strategies of mine gave me rich results . it helped to change the culture of the organizations which are 30 years old.
sending memos etc are negative discipline strategies which are no more useful.
most importantly you need not succeed in in your efforts of doin good for them. your public efforts are enough to project a positive image of yours.
so keep trying..all the best
prashanth shetty
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