Dear all, I am working in HR Department of Steel Industry. Our company is setting up a new 4 MT steel plant which comprises of all main units like Coke ovens, Blast furnace, steel melting shop, Mills etc. please guide me on the manpower assessment system/methodology/norms . Case study on this will also be useful.
From India, Bhilai
From India, Bhilai
Manpower assessment can be done based on the competencies required by the each job roles and the individual's, Gap analysis can be done for the required and the actual. competency can be analyzed from the job description of the new plant,...
From India, Hosur
From India, Hosur
Dear dhdurg
I think you are underestimating the assignment, and you should visit some integrated steel plant to know about the scale of operation.
A steel plant is considered the "mother of all industries", due to its vastness and complexity and because its products are subsequently used in setting up other industries. So far, all Indian integrated steel plants have started with a capacity of 1 MTPA, and after years of operation, have enhamced their capacities to 2.5 MTPA and then 4 MTPA. Of course, Mittal and POSCO have plans to come up with 4 MTPA greenfield projects, but despite their efforts in the last four years, they are yet to acquire land for it.
A 4 MTPA ISP with its residential township would be the size of a small town in itself. There are hundreds of departments, kilometers long rail/structurals/long and flat product rolling mills, hundreds of kilometers of railway track etc. not to speak of at least 20,000 employees on roll to manage the plant and auxiliary services like Oxygen Plant, Power Plant, Water Treatment Plant, Rail Transport, Acetylene Plant, Compressor & Blowing Station etc.
The study and assessment of manpower requirement is not done by a single person, and that too by an HR person. It is done by renowned management consultancies or a dedicated team of Industrial Engineers in consultation with Equipment manufacturers like Thyzoprom (Russian co.) , Thyssen-Krupp (German co.) etc.; who will charge millions of dollar for this assignment which will take at least three months.
It is utterly impractical to extend help to you through this thread. Please discuss the matter again with your seniors and the management.
Hope the above would be helpful to you. In case you still face difficulty, do write back.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
1425I think you are underestimating the assignment, and you should visit some integrated steel plant to know about the scale of operation.
A steel plant is considered the "mother of all industries", due to its vastness and complexity and because its products are subsequently used in setting up other industries. So far, all Indian integrated steel plants have started with a capacity of 1 MTPA, and after years of operation, have enhamced their capacities to 2.5 MTPA and then 4 MTPA. Of course, Mittal and POSCO have plans to come up with 4 MTPA greenfield projects, but despite their efforts in the last four years, they are yet to acquire land for it.
A 4 MTPA ISP with its residential township would be the size of a small town in itself. There are hundreds of departments, kilometers long rail/structurals/long and flat product rolling mills, hundreds of kilometers of railway track etc. not to speak of at least 20,000 employees on roll to manage the plant and auxiliary services like Oxygen Plant, Power Plant, Water Treatment Plant, Rail Transport, Acetylene Plant, Compressor & Blowing Station etc.
The study and assessment of manpower requirement is not done by a single person, and that too by an HR person. It is done by renowned management consultancies or a dedicated team of Industrial Engineers in consultation with Equipment manufacturers like Thyzoprom (Russian co.) , Thyssen-Krupp (German co.) etc.; who will charge millions of dollar for this assignment which will take at least three months.
It is utterly impractical to extend help to you through this thread. Please discuss the matter again with your seniors and the management.
Hope the above would be helpful to you. In case you still face difficulty, do write back.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Hi Raj,
Thanks a lot for your professional reply!
Well, I have quoted one of your statements. I would like to know what HR can play role in manpower planning? As per you I suppose manpower planning is highly technical job to be done mostly by Industrial Engineer, Production Manager, etc. and not by HR.
I think HR can play a role in terms of Skills available, gap analysis as per future requirement, market benchmark for compensation to do financial budgeting, etc.
Please correct me if I am wrong and give your views.
Regards
Manish
From India, Nagpur
Thanks a lot for your professional reply!
Well, I have quoted one of your statements. I would like to know what HR can play role in manpower planning? As per you I suppose manpower planning is highly technical job to be done mostly by Industrial Engineer, Production Manager, etc. and not by HR.
I think HR can play a role in terms of Skills available, gap analysis as per future requirement, market benchmark for compensation to do financial budgeting, etc.
Please correct me if I am wrong and give your views.
Regards
Manish
From India, Nagpur
Dear Manish,
Mr Raj Kumar Hansdah has said that "The study and assessment of manpower requirement is not done by a single person, and that too by an HR person. It is done by renowned management consultancies or a dedicated team of Industrial Engineers in consultation with Equipment manufacturers like..."
HR can be a part of team that decides on manpower planning. Secondly, if HR has technical background, it will be easier for HR to understand the technical aspects of the job. Involvement of HR in manpower planning will help them in framing recruitment plans as well. HR can study the jobs and decide on the competencies required for the job.
Ok...
DVD
From India, Bangalore
Mr Raj Kumar Hansdah has said that "The study and assessment of manpower requirement is not done by a single person, and that too by an HR person. It is done by renowned management consultancies or a dedicated team of Industrial Engineers in consultation with Equipment manufacturers like..."
HR can be a part of team that decides on manpower planning. Secondly, if HR has technical background, it will be easier for HR to understand the technical aspects of the job. Involvement of HR in manpower planning will help them in framing recruitment plans as well. HR can study the jobs and decide on the competencies required for the job.
Ok...
DVD
From India, Bangalore
Dear Mr. Dinesh Diwekar
Thank you very much for explaining the query raised. Yes, HR is definitely a part of the team; but it is the Industrial Engineering experts who lead the team as they know the process, technology, and can study the man-hours requirements at which technical level required and for which work spots.
They are the people who will pass on this information after calculating the shifts, relievers, leave reserve required etc. to the HR people in terms of Manpower requirements - X nos. B.Tech with y years of experience in Z industries; X1 nos. of Engg. Diploma or ITI with y1 years of experience in z1 industries etc. etc.
I appreciate your post considering that it takes years of managerial experience in diversified field to even appreciate the manpower requirements of a gigantic greenfield manufacturing plant.
Dear manishsawankar
I appreciate your enthusiasm and inquizitiveness; but please DO NOT QUOTE ME OUT OF CONTEXT and take cognizance of just a single sentence, in isolation.
While making that statement, I was not referring to the "MANPOWER PLANNING" activities which is well known to all experienced HR professionals and is done in a routine manner and it simply comprises of Forecasting the manpower based on superannuation; retention rate, likely requirements based on other factors etc etc.
What I meant was much much more broader and deeper. I wish you had given some detail about yourself like :
whether you are from manufacturing background and your experience in HR field.
I was referring to the manpower requirements of a greenfield Integrated Steel Plant of 4 million tonnes capacity.
I"ll try to make you understand the magnitude of the assignment. In India there are just a handful of ISP's and all started with capacities of 1 Million Tonnes or less, and for which whole townships like Jamshedpur, Bhilai, Bokaro, Rourkela, Salem. Vizag, Burnpur etc. were set up.
If you are not from manufacturing sector or have never visited an integrated steel plant, it would be diffcult to even imagine the manpower requirement and its assessment.
Iron and steel manufacturing is a continuous process and there are various technologies available each having its own cost (in millions of dollars) and the payoff is either quality, reduced cycle time, lesser wastage, energy efficiency. or most importantly MANPOWER COST.
Thus, for the same unit of manufactured poroduct quantity, manpower required will be different depending on the technology and process used. It is a vast and a specialised field. For this purpose, an HR professional, however best and experienced he is, CAN NEVER MAKE A MANPOWER ASSESSMENT STUDY, on his own single-handedly.
For example : Let us take a single Blast Furnace (A 4 MT plant will have 5 to 7 Blast Furnaces). Can you estimate the manpower requirements?
Can you say how many operatives at what level will be required to function at which work spots. What should be their competencies, qualification, experience etc. This is just a single. sample question.
Let us take an easy example. In steel plants, at any time about 60 locos (locomotive/trains) are employed for movement of hot steel ingots from Steel Melting Shops/Converter "Shops"; hot metal (moltn iron) from Blast Furnaces, Moving Blooms and Billets from Continuous Casting "shops", moving finished rails (these ays they are manufacturing almost a km long rails), plates. structurals etc. not to speak of raw materials like iron ore, limestone etc.
Can you, with your best knowledge in HR, assess the manpower requirements of the Loco team for each locos - how many Engine Drivers, their assistants etc. - what will be their qualifications and experience ? What about the Trackmans who change tracks, signals, gates etc.
Are you aware that in a Typical Steel Plant, there can be more than two thousand different designations for employees, each with its own JD, qualification, competencies required ??
If the above sounds unfamiliar, I shall try to give you more relevant examples, if you can tell me in which industry you work. Apart from Iron & steel industry, I am familiar with Aluminium and Cement industries too. Please also appreciate the fact that there is more to HR than just what one reads in a B-school textbook or discusses with one's peers and colleagues.
Regards.
From India, Delhi
Thank you very much for explaining the query raised. Yes, HR is definitely a part of the team; but it is the Industrial Engineering experts who lead the team as they know the process, technology, and can study the man-hours requirements at which technical level required and for which work spots.
They are the people who will pass on this information after calculating the shifts, relievers, leave reserve required etc. to the HR people in terms of Manpower requirements - X nos. B.Tech with y years of experience in Z industries; X1 nos. of Engg. Diploma or ITI with y1 years of experience in z1 industries etc. etc.
I appreciate your post considering that it takes years of managerial experience in diversified field to even appreciate the manpower requirements of a gigantic greenfield manufacturing plant.
Dear manishsawankar
I appreciate your enthusiasm and inquizitiveness; but please DO NOT QUOTE ME OUT OF CONTEXT and take cognizance of just a single sentence, in isolation.
While making that statement, I was not referring to the "MANPOWER PLANNING" activities which is well known to all experienced HR professionals and is done in a routine manner and it simply comprises of Forecasting the manpower based on superannuation; retention rate, likely requirements based on other factors etc etc.
What I meant was much much more broader and deeper. I wish you had given some detail about yourself like :
whether you are from manufacturing background and your experience in HR field.
I was referring to the manpower requirements of a greenfield Integrated Steel Plant of 4 million tonnes capacity.
I"ll try to make you understand the magnitude of the assignment. In India there are just a handful of ISP's and all started with capacities of 1 Million Tonnes or less, and for which whole townships like Jamshedpur, Bhilai, Bokaro, Rourkela, Salem. Vizag, Burnpur etc. were set up.
If you are not from manufacturing sector or have never visited an integrated steel plant, it would be diffcult to even imagine the manpower requirement and its assessment.
Iron and steel manufacturing is a continuous process and there are various technologies available each having its own cost (in millions of dollars) and the payoff is either quality, reduced cycle time, lesser wastage, energy efficiency. or most importantly MANPOWER COST.
Thus, for the same unit of manufactured poroduct quantity, manpower required will be different depending on the technology and process used. It is a vast and a specialised field. For this purpose, an HR professional, however best and experienced he is, CAN NEVER MAKE A MANPOWER ASSESSMENT STUDY, on his own single-handedly.
For example : Let us take a single Blast Furnace (A 4 MT plant will have 5 to 7 Blast Furnaces). Can you estimate the manpower requirements?
Can you say how many operatives at what level will be required to function at which work spots. What should be their competencies, qualification, experience etc. This is just a single. sample question.
Let us take an easy example. In steel plants, at any time about 60 locos (locomotive/trains) are employed for movement of hot steel ingots from Steel Melting Shops/Converter "Shops"; hot metal (moltn iron) from Blast Furnaces, Moving Blooms and Billets from Continuous Casting "shops", moving finished rails (these ays they are manufacturing almost a km long rails), plates. structurals etc. not to speak of raw materials like iron ore, limestone etc.
Can you, with your best knowledge in HR, assess the manpower requirements of the Loco team for each locos - how many Engine Drivers, their assistants etc. - what will be their qualifications and experience ? What about the Trackmans who change tracks, signals, gates etc.
Are you aware that in a Typical Steel Plant, there can be more than two thousand different designations for employees, each with its own JD, qualification, competencies required ??
If the above sounds unfamiliar, I shall try to give you more relevant examples, if you can tell me in which industry you work. Apart from Iron & steel industry, I am familiar with Aluminium and Cement industries too. Please also appreciate the fact that there is more to HR than just what one reads in a B-school textbook or discusses with one's peers and colleagues.
Regards.
From India, Delhi
Hi Mr. Raj,
Thanks for your detailed answer.
Well, I have 6 years of experience in HR out of which 1.9 years in manufacturing. Currently I am in a startup IT company.
In my manufacturing company, what I saw about manpower planning that we used to get a file from head office to be circulated to every HODs who can fillup their manpower requirement and send back to HO. Then as per my knowledge, by having only finance(budget) perspective manpower would get sanctioned. My above learning may be superficial.
I my current IT company, it is totally depending on the client if the project is on T & M(manhour basis). We can only deploy the resources as demanded, sanctioned by the client.
You have really vast experience in a very large company which I can never imagine because I never worked not more than 100+ employee company.
My only concern was to know about the exact role of HR in manpower planning and other functions irrespective of industry.
With this reply, I humbly request you to keep guiding us with your experience and knowledge so that we can know "what is more to HR?"
Thanks again!
Manish
From India, Nagpur
Thanks for your detailed answer.
Well, I have 6 years of experience in HR out of which 1.9 years in manufacturing. Currently I am in a startup IT company.
In my manufacturing company, what I saw about manpower planning that we used to get a file from head office to be circulated to every HODs who can fillup their manpower requirement and send back to HO. Then as per my knowledge, by having only finance(budget) perspective manpower would get sanctioned. My above learning may be superficial.
I my current IT company, it is totally depending on the client if the project is on T & M(manhour basis). We can only deploy the resources as demanded, sanctioned by the client.
You have really vast experience in a very large company which I can never imagine because I never worked not more than 100+ employee company.
My only concern was to know about the exact role of HR in manpower planning and other functions irrespective of industry.
With this reply, I humbly request you to keep guiding us with your experience and knowledge so that we can know "what is more to HR?"
Thanks again!
Manish
From India, Nagpur
Dear Manish
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, the core principles of HRM may be similar across industries; however, there is immense diversity in the application and practice of different aspects, in different industries (ranging from manufacturing and infrastructures to services such as IT, Education, Hospitality, Health services etc.) and in different stages of business (like initial, growth, maturity, decline phases).
As HR professionals we should highlight these diversities of HRM applications, for professional development and excellence.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, the core principles of HRM may be similar across industries; however, there is immense diversity in the application and practice of different aspects, in different industries (ranging from manufacturing and infrastructures to services such as IT, Education, Hospitality, Health services etc.) and in different stages of business (like initial, growth, maturity, decline phases).
As HR professionals we should highlight these diversities of HRM applications, for professional development and excellence.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear all,
I wonder where dhdurg is!! He does not seem to have responded after raising the question. As expected Raj Kumar Hansdah (RKH) has given sound and detailed response. I am no HR expert but have worked as an Industrial Engineer for over 10 years before moving to academia (you can see my profile at ).
I did not understand what MT menat, as the person was asking for manpower plans for a new steel plant. But after reading RKH's response, I just searched the web to see if I could find some info. The following page sjust shows the enormity of the task as well explained by RKH.
Tata Steel to treble capacity to 21 mt-Steel-Ind'l Goods / Svs-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times
Found at
Google
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
I wonder where dhdurg is!! He does not seem to have responded after raising the question. As expected Raj Kumar Hansdah (RKH) has given sound and detailed response. I am no HR expert but have worked as an Industrial Engineer for over 10 years before moving to academia (you can see my profile at ).
I did not understand what MT menat, as the person was asking for manpower plans for a new steel plant. But after reading RKH's response, I just searched the web to see if I could find some info. The following page sjust shows the enormity of the task as well explained by RKH.
Tata Steel to treble capacity to 21 mt-Steel-Ind'l Goods / Svs-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times
Found at
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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