Dear Mani,
Let us split the situation for an analysis: (As per your Version)
1. It's a Conversation lead into Violence:
(Is there any other motive or past incidence having happened in the work place between the both or any complaints or observations passed to your HR Department)
2. No Victim has complained to the HR Department:
(Only 2 accosiates, What is their position in the organization, Whether the incidence has become nuisense or in which it has affected other morality or sanity. If any one says yes there are many issues which can be pointed by many and no one work) Until or Unless any one of the victim complaints
3. HR Department has called for an enquiry:
Is it a written complaint given by that 2 associates or HR Department has called for an enquiry in-behalf of what basis was given in writting.
If not it is a biased one where other motive caused to terminate.
The above said is to rethink the whole situation once again.
The question is how you are going to take up the situation to the management, if you know any influential person to express about it you can or it will be just a discussion.
Please update on the matter.
Regards
From India, Madras
Let us split the situation for an analysis: (As per your Version)
1. It's a Conversation lead into Violence:
(Is there any other motive or past incidence having happened in the work place between the both or any complaints or observations passed to your HR Department)
2. No Victim has complained to the HR Department:
(Only 2 accosiates, What is their position in the organization, Whether the incidence has become nuisense or in which it has affected other morality or sanity. If any one says yes there are many issues which can be pointed by many and no one work) Until or Unless any one of the victim complaints
3. HR Department has called for an enquiry:
Is it a written complaint given by that 2 associates or HR Department has called for an enquiry in-behalf of what basis was given in writting.
If not it is a biased one where other motive caused to terminate.
The above said is to rethink the whole situation once again.
The question is how you are going to take up the situation to the management, if you know any influential person to express about it you can or it will be just a discussion.
Please update on the matter.
Regards
From India, Madras
Dear Raj Kumar,
While going through all the nine pages of the positive, negative, emotional, right or wrong responses to the current issue of termination on misbehavior of the 2 employees, I found a diffeent type of problem posted by you asking for readers opinions, i.e., "The notice period in a company is one month, by either side. An employee gives a notice on 20th Dec. to be relieved off on 19th January 2011.
Now the management instead decides to relieve him early, since he has already submitted his resignation. Moreover, his work is of confidential nature in strategic marketing and there is no point in continuing with him any further. Can the management relieve him within a week, without any notice pay for the remaining period."
So, I preferred first to express my opinion to the problem mentioned by you.
My Views on the issue:
May the notice period be one month, it is obliatory to be followed by the INITIATING party (in this case, the employee), but not on the responding party (Managment). Since the employee has fulfilled his/her liability of the notice period, the management can facilitate relief of the employee any day during the notice period at its own volition. The management is not bound to adhere the one month's time, if it can arrange to manage the work of the employee within a short period. In this case the management would not be liable to pay the salary for the number of days falling short of 30 days.
However, had the management desired to terminate the employee, at its own, it would have been obliged to adhere the prescribed notice period or would have paid salary for the remaining days falling short of the notice period, provided the employee is not able to get another job during that notice period. Naturally, an employee cannot hold 2 posts at a time.
In fact the intention of the notice period is normally to allow the management to make necessary arrangements to manage the work of the employee without any hurdle in the day-to-day affairs of the organization.
Hope you will agree with my opinion.
From India, Delhi
387While going through all the nine pages of the positive, negative, emotional, right or wrong responses to the current issue of termination on misbehavior of the 2 employees, I found a diffeent type of problem posted by you asking for readers opinions, i.e., "The notice period in a company is one month, by either side. An employee gives a notice on 20th Dec. to be relieved off on 19th January 2011.
Now the management instead decides to relieve him early, since he has already submitted his resignation. Moreover, his work is of confidential nature in strategic marketing and there is no point in continuing with him any further. Can the management relieve him within a week, without any notice pay for the remaining period."
So, I preferred first to express my opinion to the problem mentioned by you.
My Views on the issue:
May the notice period be one month, it is obliatory to be followed by the INITIATING party (in this case, the employee), but not on the responding party (Managment). Since the employee has fulfilled his/her liability of the notice period, the management can facilitate relief of the employee any day during the notice period at its own volition. The management is not bound to adhere the one month's time, if it can arrange to manage the work of the employee within a short period. In this case the management would not be liable to pay the salary for the number of days falling short of 30 days.
However, had the management desired to terminate the employee, at its own, it would have been obliged to adhere the prescribed notice period or would have paid salary for the remaining days falling short of the notice period, provided the employee is not able to get another job during that notice period. Naturally, an employee cannot hold 2 posts at a time.
In fact the intention of the notice period is normally to allow the management to make necessary arrangements to manage the work of the employee without any hurdle in the day-to-day affairs of the organization.
Hope you will agree with my opinion.
From India, Delhi
Its unfair on part of HR.People in HR who took such decision,should understand that they are taking care of human resources.Moreover, freshers need guidance and supervision.If almost all of us at this forum feel this act as unjust, this action must have negatively affected the people working in your organization and thus affecting the productivity and positivity. Put request to higher ups. That should work. And if that does not work-leave it. Suggest your friends to look for something else. Place is not worth.
From India, Gurgaon
From India, Gurgaon
Dear Mani,
Nothing is impossible in this world. If there is a will , then there is a way...
Ask the two victims to come and speak with their management once again. If still they are not accepting means 100.0% they have to go to the Labour commissioner. They have to get their job by hook or cook. Ask them to fight for their rights and you also help them as you got a lot of suggestions from different users.
Have a hard and tough fight, you will surely won the situation.....
Thanks....
From India, Hyderabad
Nothing is impossible in this world. If there is a will , then there is a way...
Ask the two victims to come and speak with their management once again. If still they are not accepting means 100.0% they have to go to the Labour commissioner. They have to get their job by hook or cook. Ask them to fight for their rights and you also help them as you got a lot of suggestions from different users.
Have a hard and tough fight, you will surely won the situation.....
Thanks....
From India, Hyderabad
It's a sheer act of arrogance and violations of human rights.A company of this stature should not be nesting these kinds of high handed people who abuse authority.Tell them to approach a lawyer who would help them and sew these people out of shape.
These should not happen to others because such things are waiting to happen in IT industries.
From India, Bangalore
These should not happen to others because such things are waiting to happen in IT industries.
From India, Bangalore
May be HR of the organization were in a mood to set an example to the all company employees. But whatever they have done with the girl and boy that is the worst punishment.
From India, New Delhi
From India, New Delhi
Dear Mani,
In short the position on the face of the problem seems to revolve around the three points, as follows:
(1) The employees being on probation could be terminated even without notice;
(2) The incident occured in office premises (may be in a cafeteria, but being a part of office/ organizational premises);
(3) The acts of both the employees within the office premises falls within the ambit of misconduct, being of the nature of "Discriminatory conduct, encouragement or creation of an offensive or hostile environment, intimidation or violence" (being a part of the Standing Order of the organization, as pointed out by you).
So, as a disciplinarian, I can say, there was nothing wrong in the action of the management to terminate the employees, even if seen from legal angle.
BUT, on humanitarian grounds, my personal opinion is that the offence being the first one, the action of the management to terminate them was quite harsh. Since both of the employees had been honest in admitting their guilt and reconciled, the management could issue a warning letter to them to be careful for the future and would face termination in the event of any subsequent misconduct of such nature.
Of course one flaw in the action of the managment is there. The action of HR of course was not fair to directly call both the employees to explain the circumstances. The HR should have routed its show cause notice through their managers to ask for their explanation, along with the comments of their managers.
However, if they want to be reinstated in the same organization, they must proceed in a very systematic way. There must be a provision of submitting an appeal to the prescribed competent authority, as is normally prescribed in the company's Standing Orders. So, instead of addressing any communication direct to the top management or to have legal recourse by the employees, they must follow the prescribed official channels to submit their individual appeal in a mild language, assuring their good conduct for the future and requesting the authoity to reinstate them.
Any legal action on their part may fall flat, if they don't follow the prescribed channels of appeal, etc., as may have been prescribed in the Standing Orders of the company. However, if their appeal is also rejected by the prescribed appellate authority, action to take recourse to file a legal case against the company would be quite reasonable and valid.
PS Dhingra
Management & Vigilance Consultant
Dhingra Group of Consultants
New Delhi
09968076381
[dcgroup1962@gmail.com]
more at https://www.citehr.com/305038-right-...#ixzz190CRREN4
From India, Delhi
In short the position on the face of the problem seems to revolve around the three points, as follows:
(1) The employees being on probation could be terminated even without notice;
(2) The incident occured in office premises (may be in a cafeteria, but being a part of office/ organizational premises);
(3) The acts of both the employees within the office premises falls within the ambit of misconduct, being of the nature of "Discriminatory conduct, encouragement or creation of an offensive or hostile environment, intimidation or violence" (being a part of the Standing Order of the organization, as pointed out by you).
So, as a disciplinarian, I can say, there was nothing wrong in the action of the management to terminate the employees, even if seen from legal angle.
BUT, on humanitarian grounds, my personal opinion is that the offence being the first one, the action of the management to terminate them was quite harsh. Since both of the employees had been honest in admitting their guilt and reconciled, the management could issue a warning letter to them to be careful for the future and would face termination in the event of any subsequent misconduct of such nature.
Of course one flaw in the action of the managment is there. The action of HR of course was not fair to directly call both the employees to explain the circumstances. The HR should have routed its show cause notice through their managers to ask for their explanation, along with the comments of their managers.
However, if they want to be reinstated in the same organization, they must proceed in a very systematic way. There must be a provision of submitting an appeal to the prescribed competent authority, as is normally prescribed in the company's Standing Orders. So, instead of addressing any communication direct to the top management or to have legal recourse by the employees, they must follow the prescribed official channels to submit their individual appeal in a mild language, assuring their good conduct for the future and requesting the authoity to reinstate them.
Any legal action on their part may fall flat, if they don't follow the prescribed channels of appeal, etc., as may have been prescribed in the Standing Orders of the company. However, if their appeal is also rejected by the prescribed appellate authority, action to take recourse to file a legal case against the company would be quite reasonable and valid.
PS Dhingra
Management & Vigilance Consultant
Dhingra Group of Consultants
New Delhi
09968076381
[dcgroup1962@gmail.com]
more at https://www.citehr.com/305038-right-...#ixzz190CRREN4
From India, Delhi
D.P.Jayakumar
Subject - Re: Is this the right punishment?Please go through this
I think since this incident happened in cafeteria, they (the boy & girl) could have come to senses and compromised within themselves and need not have given anything in writing which has become their own grave. They could have said that we have compromised among ourselves and nothing derogatory has happened. Even HR should have set an example and orally warned them after the statement in writing. They have actually misused the apology letter which is unfair practice.
D.P.Jayakumar
From India, Pondicherry
Subject - Re: Is this the right punishment?Please go through this
I think since this incident happened in cafeteria, they (the boy & girl) could have come to senses and compromised within themselves and need not have given anything in writing which has become their own grave. They could have said that we have compromised among ourselves and nothing derogatory has happened. Even HR should have set an example and orally warned them after the statement in writing. They have actually misused the apology letter which is unfair practice.
D.P.Jayakumar
From India, Pondicherry
This really was a harsh decision... but i think not only hr but the management is also involved in taking the decisions. in the first place we should not blame the HR. Secondly there is a possibility that the management has felt that today if somebody does such behavior and they are left on their own, then other staff may take the management for granted and such things or even voilation of rules and regulations may also happen. Hence they may have taken such a step.
But i feel the management should have considered and given both of them warning for their code of conduct......and given a punishment like suspended for 15 days......or deducted some percentage from their salary.... but not removed them.
Regards,
YC
From India, Mumbai
But i feel the management should have considered and given both of them warning for their code of conduct......and given a punishment like suspended for 15 days......or deducted some percentage from their salary.... but not removed them.
Regards,
YC
From India, Mumbai
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