Dear Keshav
Thanks for bringing this discussion alive.
Mr. Saikumar's contributions are praiseworthy.
However, this matter has not yet reached a satisfactory conclusion. I hope the person posting this query would respond.
In my opinion, I find that only one member has given a very correct, albeit brief, line of action that a public sector organization would most likely pursue.
As correctly observed by others; Maternity Benefit Act 1961, will not apply here, as the concerned person is not an employee as yet.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
1425Thanks for bringing this discussion alive.
Mr. Saikumar's contributions are praiseworthy.
However, this matter has not yet reached a satisfactory conclusion. I hope the person posting this query would respond.
In my opinion, I find that only one member has given a very correct, albeit brief, line of action that a public sector organization would most likely pursue.
As correctly observed by others; Maternity Benefit Act 1961, will not apply here, as the concerned person is not an employee as yet.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
In our organisation , in such cases of pregnency, candidates are made temporarily unfit and asked to report again for medical after four weeks after delivery.. So candidates are not disqualified.
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Perfectly right.
In companies where comprehensive medical examination is done, involving urine, blood and other tests, before appointment; there are guidelines to deal with such cases.
Also, before x-ray is taken a pregnant woman is required to divulge such relevant information.
When the tests reveal pregnancy, a women candidate is declared Temporarily Unfit.
She is directed to undergo second Medical Examination after four weeks of delivery, wherein if she is otherwise found fit; she is offered employment.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
In companies where comprehensive medical examination is done, involving urine, blood and other tests, before appointment; there are guidelines to deal with such cases.
Also, before x-ray is taken a pregnant woman is required to divulge such relevant information.
When the tests reveal pregnancy, a women candidate is declared Temporarily Unfit.
She is directed to undergo second Medical Examination after four weeks of delivery, wherein if she is otherwise found fit; she is offered employment.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Greetings to all
First, I would like to express my sincere thanks to Ms (Cite Contribution), who connected me though this discussion via twitter and I got a chance to share myself on this case Second, to the one who responded on twitter with his question about CONDITIONS (responded on my reply to her)
Here I go...
Period of Pregnancy and Safety Concern along with the other condition of pregnancy are basic things that must not be forgotten while considering/discussing this case.
I buy that pregnancy should not be the criteria for rejecting the candidate and it would not be ethical too but still without considering the conditions and fact, we must not say whether the candidate should be rejected or accepted.
My first question: How will you get the reality of this case and the real reasons of rejecting candidature of a pregnant woman by the query of Mr. Keshav?
I agree that there is no law that asks us for not to rejecting candidature or not hiring a pregnant woman candidate nor any rule, any law specified in India that compel us to hire a woman candidate by ignoring the facts of pregnancy.
How one can say that only pregnancy can be the reason for rejecting the woman candidate, is my other question to you all. And, if, let's accept, the candidature of a pregnant woman has rejected, but still the few things that we must not forget before going further or discussing it that the period of pregnancy/ present health status, safety concern, mental status of her, work and work atmosphere, and also the break /leave that is required by woman in the future, are the basic points that a recruiter and interviewer have have to consider before employ her. Moreover, there it would not be good to say “accepting or rejecting her candidate but to hire or offering job/employment or not with reasoning pregnancy”.
My Question to all recruiters:
-Are you ready to ignore these aforesaid conditions and facts of pregnancy while considering her candidature?
-Will you hire a pregnant woman candidate for few months while knowing the fact that she is gonna be on leave for the period required by her (allowed maternity leaves as per rules/law) and also where there is no guarantee of her rejoining after completion of granted leave period.
-Are you the one who would never expect or /look for consistency in job of her with regard to past and future employment?
I respect the concern raised by Mr Keshav and consent on it by others but we must not forget, the facts regarding pregnancy of a candidate that really matters in decision making or hiring a candidate and also that we are responsible for health (both physical and mental stress and conditions) and social security of our employees.
About response #21 by Mr SaiKumar, Section 12 of Maternity Benefit Act 1961, is to protect the EMPLOYMENT of a woman but not to expose her to any risk of losing her job on grounds of pregnancy but here we are discussing about hiring or not hiring a pregnant woman candidate who is still not employed or this condition applies to present employee not for future employees. So there is no violation of article 14 which is well cleared by Mr Keshav himself in response #22. Thanks Mr Keshav!
About response by Mr kraviravi your responses are appreciable but there is nothing like that it depends on people to people but to the facts and the real conditions of pregnancy of a candidate and employment.
And requests to all, do not take it as a debate because it is a case that everyone who is from HR Domain need understand
Hope I have cleared myself with every this query and case.
Lastly, the one who asked me the ‘CONDITIONS’ what I tweeted today in response to Ms (Cite Contribution)’s Twit on this case, hope you’ll find your answers by my this response.
From India, Gurgaon
First, I would like to express my sincere thanks to Ms (Cite Contribution), who connected me though this discussion via twitter and I got a chance to share myself on this case Second, to the one who responded on twitter with his question about CONDITIONS (responded on my reply to her)
Here I go...
Period of Pregnancy and Safety Concern along with the other condition of pregnancy are basic things that must not be forgotten while considering/discussing this case.
I buy that pregnancy should not be the criteria for rejecting the candidate and it would not be ethical too but still without considering the conditions and fact, we must not say whether the candidate should be rejected or accepted.
My first question: How will you get the reality of this case and the real reasons of rejecting candidature of a pregnant woman by the query of Mr. Keshav?
I agree that there is no law that asks us for not to rejecting candidature or not hiring a pregnant woman candidate nor any rule, any law specified in India that compel us to hire a woman candidate by ignoring the facts of pregnancy.
How one can say that only pregnancy can be the reason for rejecting the woman candidate, is my other question to you all. And, if, let's accept, the candidature of a pregnant woman has rejected, but still the few things that we must not forget before going further or discussing it that the period of pregnancy/ present health status, safety concern, mental status of her, work and work atmosphere, and also the break /leave that is required by woman in the future, are the basic points that a recruiter and interviewer have have to consider before employ her. Moreover, there it would not be good to say “accepting or rejecting her candidate but to hire or offering job/employment or not with reasoning pregnancy”.
My Question to all recruiters:
-Are you ready to ignore these aforesaid conditions and facts of pregnancy while considering her candidature?
-Will you hire a pregnant woman candidate for few months while knowing the fact that she is gonna be on leave for the period required by her (allowed maternity leaves as per rules/law) and also where there is no guarantee of her rejoining after completion of granted leave period.
-Are you the one who would never expect or /look for consistency in job of her with regard to past and future employment?
I respect the concern raised by Mr Keshav and consent on it by others but we must not forget, the facts regarding pregnancy of a candidate that really matters in decision making or hiring a candidate and also that we are responsible for health (both physical and mental stress and conditions) and social security of our employees.
About response #21 by Mr SaiKumar, Section 12 of Maternity Benefit Act 1961, is to protect the EMPLOYMENT of a woman but not to expose her to any risk of losing her job on grounds of pregnancy but here we are discussing about hiring or not hiring a pregnant woman candidate who is still not employed or this condition applies to present employee not for future employees. So there is no violation of article 14 which is well cleared by Mr Keshav himself in response #22. Thanks Mr Keshav!
About response by Mr kraviravi your responses are appreciable but there is nothing like that it depends on people to people but to the facts and the real conditions of pregnancy of a candidate and employment.
And requests to all, do not take it as a debate because it is a case that everyone who is from HR Domain need understand
Hope I have cleared myself with every this query and case.
Lastly, the one who asked me the ‘CONDITIONS’ what I tweeted today in response to Ms (Cite Contribution)’s Twit on this case, hope you’ll find your answers by my this response.
From India, Gurgaon
Dear friends
I appreciate the inputs on this; which can be implemented in private sector; which is much more lenient and aims at optimum exploitation of human resources available.
However, in Government and PSU's the standards of Medical Examination are stringent, well laid out and specific. The examination is not done by a doctor, but a Medical Board comprising of several specialists.
This is necessary for obvious reasons, as well as the benefit of pension to employee/his surviving wife/ or surviving children till the age of majority.
Also, the age of a candidate is also ascertained and recorded by the Board in its Report.
Thus, there is no question of any personal opinion; as rules are very specific.
I can vouch for it, having faced the Medical Board of UPSC and having been a senior manager in Personnel/HR deptt of a Navratna PSU.
The most stringent rule exist for the Defence Forces, followed by govt airlines and railways; para-military services like BSF,Coast Guard, CRPF, CISF etc. Technical services in Gr A & B like IPS, IFS (Forest), IRTS, Customs etc. followed by the Technical services in PSU's.
There are thick manuals. Rules and Policies. Since the President of India is the Head of Govt; the rules after his approvals are published (Notified) in the Gazette of India. The President being the "öwner" of all the PSUs, his directives are followed as Rules in the PSU's.
Before the candidate appears for the Medical Board, he may have to fill up a comprehensive medical declaration'which has a number of question like :
- Have you ever been examined by a Medical Board before ?
- If "yes", then for which service and ....
- when and where was the Medical.....
-What was the result in case you were communicated....
- Have you undergone surgery before...
- Are you suffering from.....
- Do any of your family member including your parents suffer from.....
etc.
Every year these are published in the Gazette of India (Extraordinary) at various points of time.
Coming to the question of a pregnant candidate, appearing for a Medical examination, relevant portion the Annexure III of the Standards of Medical Examination; in the Gazette of India (Extraordinary) dated (the date of notification); is quoted below :
I hope the above is clear. Kindly note, that in case of Govt and PSU, there is no justification in giving one's heartfelt emotions or opinions; as there are clearly spelt out rules, which are binding.
Hope the above will be helpful to the person who posted this query as well as all member in learning and discovering the methodology related to a comprehensive Medical Examination.
An extract of the Gazette notification pertaining to medical examination is attached herewith. One can appreciate how everything including standard and routine procedures like taking Blood pressure; are elaborated in great detail.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
I appreciate the inputs on this; which can be implemented in private sector; which is much more lenient and aims at optimum exploitation of human resources available.
However, in Government and PSU's the standards of Medical Examination are stringent, well laid out and specific. The examination is not done by a doctor, but a Medical Board comprising of several specialists.
This is necessary for obvious reasons, as well as the benefit of pension to employee/his surviving wife/ or surviving children till the age of majority.
Also, the age of a candidate is also ascertained and recorded by the Board in its Report.
Thus, there is no question of any personal opinion; as rules are very specific.
I can vouch for it, having faced the Medical Board of UPSC and having been a senior manager in Personnel/HR deptt of a Navratna PSU.
The most stringent rule exist for the Defence Forces, followed by govt airlines and railways; para-military services like BSF,Coast Guard, CRPF, CISF etc. Technical services in Gr A & B like IPS, IFS (Forest), IRTS, Customs etc. followed by the Technical services in PSU's.
There are thick manuals. Rules and Policies. Since the President of India is the Head of Govt; the rules after his approvals are published (Notified) in the Gazette of India. The President being the "öwner" of all the PSUs, his directives are followed as Rules in the PSU's.
Before the candidate appears for the Medical Board, he may have to fill up a comprehensive medical declaration'which has a number of question like :
- Have you ever been examined by a Medical Board before ?
- If "yes", then for which service and ....
- when and where was the Medical.....
-What was the result in case you were communicated....
- Have you undergone surgery before...
- Are you suffering from.....
- Do any of your family member including your parents suffer from.....
etc.
Every year these are published in the Gazette of India (Extraordinary) at various points of time.
Coming to the question of a pregnant candidate, appearing for a Medical examination, relevant portion the Annexure III of the Standards of Medical Examination; in the Gazette of India (Extraordinary) dated (the date of notification); is quoted below :
"9. A woman candidate who as a result of tests is found to be pregnant of 12 weeks standing or over, should be declared temporarily unfit until the confinement is over.Similar sets of rules exists for Govt Deptts, Govt Institutions like RBI and other financial organizations and Banks.
She should be re-examined for fitness certificate six weeks after the date of confinement, subject to the production of a medical certificate of fitness from a registered medical practitioner."
I hope the above is clear. Kindly note, that in case of Govt and PSU, there is no justification in giving one's heartfelt emotions or opinions; as there are clearly spelt out rules, which are binding.
Hope the above will be helpful to the person who posted this query as well as all member in learning and discovering the methodology related to a comprehensive Medical Examination.
An extract of the Gazette notification pertaining to medical examination is attached herewith. One can appreciate how everything including standard and routine procedures like taking Blood pressure; are elaborated in great detail.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Pregnancy is a gift and Nothing can stop her joining the job. Medical checkup is for only to check the physical health conditions.
From India, Hyderabad
From India, Hyderabad
No woman can be rejected in medical if she is found to be pregnant. However as per guidelines she may be declared temporarily unfit ( depends on fundamental / supplementry rules ) to join duties and later on she can join.
Chaman Jaggi
From India, New Delhi
Chaman Jaggi
From India, New Delhi
If she has not informed the HR during interview then its more of a trust issue.
Pregnancy is a natural biological process undergone by the female of our human species. It's more important than a job offer frankly.
Legally she cannot be rejected but on work grounds she can be.
The job is created for someone who can come in now and fill it up.
If for some reason the candidate is not able to fulfill that condition physically (in the absence of a work from home model as this is a bank) right away,
the opportunity should be passed to a more available candidate who maybe someone who has just delivered a baby and back to take up work responsibilities.
So neither the company is at fault nor the candidate if they have apprised of their condition before hand they can be offered a position post their delivery.
From India, Aurangabad
Pregnancy is a natural biological process undergone by the female of our human species. It's more important than a job offer frankly.
Legally she cannot be rejected but on work grounds she can be.
The job is created for someone who can come in now and fill it up.
If for some reason the candidate is not able to fulfill that condition physically (in the absence of a work from home model as this is a bank) right away,
the opportunity should be passed to a more available candidate who maybe someone who has just delivered a baby and back to take up work responsibilities.
So neither the company is at fault nor the candidate if they have apprised of their condition before hand they can be offered a position post their delivery.
From India, Aurangabad
B.Saikumar, Need your views How to derive the number mentioned at Serial number 5 Average number of women employed daily.under Annual Return Form 11 under Maharashtra Maternity Rules
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am working in marketing field i took leave for 6 days (my wife is hospitalized for delivery) by sending leave application by mail to concerned person but they have arranged training program on the same days and send mail to my personal mail id even though they have my official mail id, i called them and explained my situation but my manager said he don't bother my problem and have to attend training but i said No i am not in the situation to attend training, after completing my leave i came to office i saw in attendance book they marked as absent form the day i took leave to till date(today) when i asked my admin he said manager has asked to mark until you report to chennai office and suddenly 2 days back manager mail me that my services has been transferred to chennai office and i have to report there, and called me to not to come to Bangalore office, sir please give me suggestion what to do.......
shall i resign...........?
From India, Bangalore
I am working in marketing field i took leave for 6 days (my wife is hospitalized for delivery) by sending leave application by mail to concerned person but they have arranged training program on the same days and send mail to my personal mail id even though they have my official mail id, i called them and explained my situation but my manager said he don't bother my problem and have to attend training but i said No i am not in the situation to attend training, after completing my leave i came to office i saw in attendance book they marked as absent form the day i took leave to till date(today) when i asked my admin he said manager has asked to mark until you report to chennai office and suddenly 2 days back manager mail me that my services has been transferred to chennai office and i have to report there, and called me to not to come to Bangalore office, sir please give me suggestion what to do.......
shall i resign...........?
From India, Bangalore
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