Dear Saikumar ji,
What you have elaborated as above presuming the pregnant lady is in employment. But the fact is, the lady is not in employment. She has only under went selection procedure. There is no contract between the lady and the company / bank. The protection under Maternity Benefit Act is given to working woman.
There is no compulsion on interviewer to employ pregnant woman by any law. Therefore, I invited the discussions, if pregnant women is rejected for employment, what one can do?
I hope, my say is very clear.
Thanks and regards.
Keshav Korgaonkar
Shantadurgaent.com,Insurance Advisors,Corporate Advisors,Legal Advise,Wage and salary,Shantadurgaent.com,Labour Compliance Audit,SSI registration,NOC from
From India, Mumbai
2555What you have elaborated as above presuming the pregnant lady is in employment. But the fact is, the lady is not in employment. She has only under went selection procedure. There is no contract between the lady and the company / bank. The protection under Maternity Benefit Act is given to working woman.
There is no compulsion on interviewer to employ pregnant woman by any law. Therefore, I invited the discussions, if pregnant women is rejected for employment, what one can do?
I hope, my say is very clear.
Thanks and regards.
Keshav Korgaonkar
Shantadurgaent.com,Insurance Advisors,Corporate Advisors,Legal Advise,Wage and salary,Shantadurgaent.com,Labour Compliance Audit,SSI registration,NOC from
From India, Mumbai
No she shouldn\'t be reject in medical due to it\'s matter of any woman life. If Medical kept any wrong diagnosis or not take any treatment properly she can carry her out to be a safe mother, finally miscarriage will come her life or any dangerous issue.
-Hasan
Sr. Executive - HR
Giant Group ( www.giantbd.com )
From Bangladesh, Dhaka
-Hasan
Sr. Executive - HR
Giant Group ( www.giantbd.com )
From Bangladesh, Dhaka
It is nice of you to welcome such discussion.What I said is that if a woman employee is found unfit for emplyment by an employer slolely on grounds of her pregnanacy but for which she would have been in employment, she has a case to fight. Though the Maternity Benefit Act protects her rights during employment, it also insures her aginst un-employment. Though in this hypothetical case, she is not in employment, she would have been in employment but for her pregnanacy and thus her employment is a deemed employment. Secondly law operates beyond the confines of a contract. Thirdly, she has the support of constitution.Howevr if the employer rejects a woman candiadate for some ostensible reason like lack of knowledge or required skills but really for her preganncy,one cannot help it. However, the discussion is purely of acdemic importance since pregnancy test cannnot be a pathological test to be conducted on a candiadte at the time of recruitment.
B.saikumar
HR & Labour Law advisor
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
B.saikumar
HR & Labour Law advisor
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
she has a case to fight and she does not have a case to fight,
Depends on people to people,
She can be rejected very easily and even SBI can recover the amount of Rs.100000/ from her, how
everything is possible using the loopholes in indian legal system.
I am not here to argue that pregnant womens should apply or not.
I will ask you some questions:
You are the employer / HR and for your company a position X is lying vacant as the person working in that position has resigned the job, so you need to fill the position X. And as already the company is going on tight schedules it is not possible to share the workload of position X to other members. So during interview as a HR your job profile demands that you should recruit a candidate who will be loyal and hardworking in the long run, this is for what you are being paid your salary and management will expect the same thing from you. Now during the selection process usually you will select some 5 candidates and need to finalize one for the position X. In that you find and offer one women the job with the condition that if found medically fit?
So when you come to know that during medical checkup that she is pregnant, you have to really think that whether is it really worth to recruit her when you know in the coming months she needs to take leave for delivery etc etc. Also since olden times its seen that all companies favor giving such benefits to long serving loyal employees and not to any employee who joined two months ago and goes pregnant in third month.
here it is not the question of giving maternity benefit ? Here the question is why knowingly will anyone hack his own leg with an axe. Because in future when the lady goes on medical leave she will get monetary benefits and company needs to engage another person for temporary period so that the person can do the work, or most companies just split the work to other colleagues, and increase their frustration as they need to stay late in office because this lady went on pregnant leave. After all we all are humans and we have emotions and life too.
Also in future after delivery she may have personal problems no one to take care of baby, further health issues, and may choose to remain housewife as per her family circumstances so in such cases the company loses heavy amount of money, and has gained nothing in this case.
So any HR person would choose not to recruit such persons in their company. And there are so many legal ways in which the company if they wish they can very sweetly pressurise the person to resign in one month, by making her work for long hours and mind it i know SBI now dont think SBI is some govt organisation i have seen the local sbi staff near my office working till late evening 08.00 pm, so the same will be applicable to this lady also.
TO all ladies,
What is your opinion on this, if knowing you are pregnant will you be ready to join a job and work as other employees do work????????????????????
You have to think from HR point of view so i would request answer from LADIES who are HR and WORKING IN HR and have DONE RECRUITMENT.
If you yourself are in such situation what will be your decision will you apply to companies just to take maternity benefit knowing you are pregnant or choose to sit at home and after delivery join a job after confirming that your child will be looked after well in day time. Because this is where pregnant mothers leave jobs, after delivery inlaws dont care then the mother has to leave job and company loses lots of money and time in this. Being corporate we have seen so many cases where employees working in company more than 5 years are literally thrown off / terminated just because they had accident / or were sick for 1-2 months and could not come to work. Is this greater than not allowing to join a pregnant women.
I would only request replies from sensible HR people who know for what company works and what decisions are to be taken and not from some lawyer who may just merely quote a law, because we need to be practical and practicality is, in india no law is made for practical scenarios if you strictly follow any law you cant do anything.
From India, Madras
Depends on people to people,
She can be rejected very easily and even SBI can recover the amount of Rs.100000/ from her, how
everything is possible using the loopholes in indian legal system.
I am not here to argue that pregnant womens should apply or not.
I will ask you some questions:
You are the employer / HR and for your company a position X is lying vacant as the person working in that position has resigned the job, so you need to fill the position X. And as already the company is going on tight schedules it is not possible to share the workload of position X to other members. So during interview as a HR your job profile demands that you should recruit a candidate who will be loyal and hardworking in the long run, this is for what you are being paid your salary and management will expect the same thing from you. Now during the selection process usually you will select some 5 candidates and need to finalize one for the position X. In that you find and offer one women the job with the condition that if found medically fit?
So when you come to know that during medical checkup that she is pregnant, you have to really think that whether is it really worth to recruit her when you know in the coming months she needs to take leave for delivery etc etc. Also since olden times its seen that all companies favor giving such benefits to long serving loyal employees and not to any employee who joined two months ago and goes pregnant in third month.
here it is not the question of giving maternity benefit ? Here the question is why knowingly will anyone hack his own leg with an axe. Because in future when the lady goes on medical leave she will get monetary benefits and company needs to engage another person for temporary period so that the person can do the work, or most companies just split the work to other colleagues, and increase their frustration as they need to stay late in office because this lady went on pregnant leave. After all we all are humans and we have emotions and life too.
Also in future after delivery she may have personal problems no one to take care of baby, further health issues, and may choose to remain housewife as per her family circumstances so in such cases the company loses heavy amount of money, and has gained nothing in this case.
So any HR person would choose not to recruit such persons in their company. And there are so many legal ways in which the company if they wish they can very sweetly pressurise the person to resign in one month, by making her work for long hours and mind it i know SBI now dont think SBI is some govt organisation i have seen the local sbi staff near my office working till late evening 08.00 pm, so the same will be applicable to this lady also.
TO all ladies,
What is your opinion on this, if knowing you are pregnant will you be ready to join a job and work as other employees do work????????????????????
You have to think from HR point of view so i would request answer from LADIES who are HR and WORKING IN HR and have DONE RECRUITMENT.
If you yourself are in such situation what will be your decision will you apply to companies just to take maternity benefit knowing you are pregnant or choose to sit at home and after delivery join a job after confirming that your child will be looked after well in day time. Because this is where pregnant mothers leave jobs, after delivery inlaws dont care then the mother has to leave job and company loses lots of money and time in this. Being corporate we have seen so many cases where employees working in company more than 5 years are literally thrown off / terminated just because they had accident / or were sick for 1-2 months and could not come to work. Is this greater than not allowing to join a pregnant women.
I would only request replies from sensible HR people who know for what company works and what decisions are to be taken and not from some lawyer who may just merely quote a law, because we need to be practical and practicality is, in india no law is made for practical scenarios if you strictly follow any law you cant do anything.
From India, Madras
Dear All,
I am very happy that some one started discussion emphatically being in the shoes of real HR professional. Thank you kraviravi.kravi.
Regards.
Keshav Korgaonkar
Shantadurgaent.com,Insurance Advisors,Corporate Advisors,Legal Advise,Wage and salary,Shantadurgaent.com,Labour Compliance Audit,SSI registration,NOC from
From India, Mumbai
I am very happy that some one started discussion emphatically being in the shoes of real HR professional. Thank you kraviravi.kravi.
Regards.
Keshav Korgaonkar
Shantadurgaent.com,Insurance Advisors,Corporate Advisors,Legal Advise,Wage and salary,Shantadurgaent.com,Labour Compliance Audit,SSI registration,NOC from
From India, Mumbai
This forum is open to all and every one can voice his opinion/views, more so when a debate and discussion is deliberately invited.Sensibility is a subjective matter.What appeals to be sensible to one, may not appeal to be so to others. Thus no one need to assume the role of a self-styled judge in this regard.The acceptance of an isue as sensible or not does not depend up on an individual employer's whims and fancies but depends up on how society percieves it and it is the laws that reflect the perceptions and will of the society and thus their spirit , more so in the case of welfare legislation needs to be understood with the sensitivity, they deserve. It is this lack of social sensitivity, ignorance of welfare aspects of social legislations like labour laws and tinkering with them with disragrd for them by the managements that often breed distrust between the mangement and the employees and souring of industrial relations as being witnessed of late.
now the issue is not why an employer should select a pregnanat woman. If an employer does not wnat to select a pregnanat woman for various reasons, he can very well cite hundred reasons and may not recruit her.there end s the matter. The issue sought to be posed is whether an employer can reject a woman who is one month pregnanat solely ob grounds of pregnancy but for which she would have been in employment.The issue , thus acquired a moral and legal dimension, more so when the woman is only one month preganant and is not going to go away from the next day itself .it attracted a debate because of this moral and legal dimension.Otherwise, there is nothing in the issue to debate.It is in this percepctive, many members have discussed the issue.Regrettably, this aspect has been sorely missed by some and the issue is sought to be debated on grounds of employer's convenience.
What if the employeris running on tight schedule, a woman proceeds on maternity leave? Will he terminate her since she is upsetting his schedule? what if a woman holding a critical role sudenly resigns? will he stop her or harass her for upsetting his schedule? Is thisthe HR with sensitivity?
Thanks , there are laws for protection of employees but for which, they would have been left to fend for themselves. Thanks also to some organisations, to great relief, who are sensitive to woman issues and protect their employment through various plans.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labou Law Advisor
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
now the issue is not why an employer should select a pregnanat woman. If an employer does not wnat to select a pregnanat woman for various reasons, he can very well cite hundred reasons and may not recruit her.there end s the matter. The issue sought to be posed is whether an employer can reject a woman who is one month pregnanat solely ob grounds of pregnancy but for which she would have been in employment.The issue , thus acquired a moral and legal dimension, more so when the woman is only one month preganant and is not going to go away from the next day itself .it attracted a debate because of this moral and legal dimension.Otherwise, there is nothing in the issue to debate.It is in this percepctive, many members have discussed the issue.Regrettably, this aspect has been sorely missed by some and the issue is sought to be debated on grounds of employer's convenience.
What if the employeris running on tight schedule, a woman proceeds on maternity leave? Will he terminate her since she is upsetting his schedule? what if a woman holding a critical role sudenly resigns? will he stop her or harass her for upsetting his schedule? Is thisthe HR with sensitivity?
Thanks , there are laws for protection of employees but for which, they would have been left to fend for themselves. Thanks also to some organisations, to great relief, who are sensitive to woman issues and protect their employment through various plans.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labou Law Advisor
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dear Saikumar ji, I appreciate your participation. There are more than 1200 viewers to this topic but very few have contributed to it. Thanks and regards. Keshav Korgaonkar
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Hi No , however keeping in view her physical condition/ medical prescription , offer can be put on hold . regards Chaman
From India, New Delhi
From India, New Delhi
It is not possible to reject or deny employment to a female on the grounds of pregnancy. At the time of interview most of the banks ask for this question and if it is so they do not select her for employment even though as per labour law rules it is not possible. The fact is that she may go on a long leave after joining and also take leave often pre and post delivery. However if she is selected and employed they cannot reject her on this ground.
From India, Madras
From India, Madras
Dear Ravi,
You want to discuss the practicality of the subject, lets come to it. I will not quote any law nor would talk about any, just one question all the scenarios you sited may happen with a lady even after joining the company and working there for years. What should they do at that time. Probably women should not work in the first place? Is it so?
Dear Friend motherhood is a natural process. It is a blessing for the family who has it. More than the legal aspect, it has emotional value attached to it. Maternity Benefit should not be seen as a burden on the company finances. When a baby is born not only mother but the whole family goes through many phase of mental and physical changes. For example they wakeup with the child at night if he wishes not to sleep, they begin to understand and distinguish between the little one's different weepings or many things. At times many co-workers have to suffer and adjust for time so that their colleague may take care of her baby. This is what called the social responsibility and everyone should contribute to it on humanitarian grounds. Yes it is unfortunate that many companies do terminate many ladies at such crucial phase of her life. But this is the difference between good and the bad company.
Not everything can be decided on practicalities my friend. Sometime we have to accept the things the way they are. Hope you have your reply.
From India, New Delhi
You want to discuss the practicality of the subject, lets come to it. I will not quote any law nor would talk about any, just one question all the scenarios you sited may happen with a lady even after joining the company and working there for years. What should they do at that time. Probably women should not work in the first place? Is it so?
Dear Friend motherhood is a natural process. It is a blessing for the family who has it. More than the legal aspect, it has emotional value attached to it. Maternity Benefit should not be seen as a burden on the company finances. When a baby is born not only mother but the whole family goes through many phase of mental and physical changes. For example they wakeup with the child at night if he wishes not to sleep, they begin to understand and distinguish between the little one's different weepings or many things. At times many co-workers have to suffer and adjust for time so that their colleague may take care of her baby. This is what called the social responsibility and everyone should contribute to it on humanitarian grounds. Yes it is unfortunate that many companies do terminate many ladies at such crucial phase of her life. But this is the difference between good and the bad company.
Not everything can be decided on practicalities my friend. Sometime we have to accept the things the way they are. Hope you have your reply.
From India, New Delhi
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