Pratibha, By framing such policies which as stated by Mr. V.Harikrishnan is patently illegal, you are inviting troubles for your organization.
From India, Pune
173From India, Pune
- How in the world you can think of making such policies ? Are you not human ? Do you also take bond and hold salaries in case of other types of leaves ? What kind of crucade mind you have and you are in a HRM profession ? God alone can help HRM from such minds !!
From India, Pune
Dear experts:
Thank you so much for your valuable guidance & support. I highly appreciate your concerns expressed in this case.
It's very unfortunate to be associated with such an inhuman and malicious HRM & work culture who does not even have the basic humane concern for its employees!!! Mr. V Kokamthankar I can't agree more with you - I too wonder how come such a person is in HRM profession who does not even know the basic labor laws & doesn't care to keep oneself abreast!! It thereby becomes clear such a person is not fit for the job!!! HRM is supposed to be also the grievance addressal dept. in a company but with such an atrocious attitude & conduct why wud any employee even think of approaching in future for his/her grievances!!! The amazing part is being involved in illegal practices as an HR!!! Nw that takes guts huh!!!
If attrition goes up or even occurs in such an work culture it isn't a suprise at all!!! It's a shame that even a basic point such as - 'any law is meant for the welfare of the people' could not be understood by them. It's nothing but a personal imposition!!! What you give out comes back to you!!!!
Once again I thank you veyr much for taking the time out to respond. :-)
Regards,
Kappu
From India, Pune
Thank you so much for your valuable guidance & support. I highly appreciate your concerns expressed in this case.
It's very unfortunate to be associated with such an inhuman and malicious HRM & work culture who does not even have the basic humane concern for its employees!!! Mr. V Kokamthankar I can't agree more with you - I too wonder how come such a person is in HRM profession who does not even know the basic labor laws & doesn't care to keep oneself abreast!! It thereby becomes clear such a person is not fit for the job!!! HRM is supposed to be also the grievance addressal dept. in a company but with such an atrocious attitude & conduct why wud any employee even think of approaching in future for his/her grievances!!! The amazing part is being involved in illegal practices as an HR!!! Nw that takes guts huh!!!
If attrition goes up or even occurs in such an work culture it isn't a suprise at all!!! It's a shame that even a basic point such as - 'any law is meant for the welfare of the people' could not be understood by them. It's nothing but a personal imposition!!! What you give out comes back to you!!!!
Once again I thank you veyr much for taking the time out to respond. :-)
Regards,
Kappu
From India, Pune
Dear All,
This is Pratibha H.
Well I could read many reactions.I also read some one stating that's its surprising to come from one female HR
Kappu, yes, you should not be stressing yourself in such an inhuman work culture , your baby definitely deserves to not get affected & expects you to not affect it..Let me tell you my experience..
I have a kid, I did sign the bond with the company.Company had helped me for 2 years, right from the time i was asked for bed rest during pregnancy to after delivery, i was given all the flexibility & support, work from home & office , combinations & otherwise for these 2 years, There was a consultant hired to help me before & after delivery, unlike other companies who just give 3 months Sal & break.3 months salary was the entire salary , not just the basic n stuff like that.
This is the case of all the female employees expecting, Apart from mine there are other 3 case as on today where in one is working from home for first 3 months, other has a kid of 7 months & comes to office just for calls, we hire extra staff to not burden the pregnant lady...& many more things out of the act :)
When I was asked for the bond , I didn't have any second thought, since the company extended all possible help & made arrangement right from helping in commutation to office to arrangements for having meetings at home, members physically came home for the meetings, It was obvious for my company to expect me to stay longer with them & not resign after the kid , They wanted me to have a plan to work later as well, considering that I would get all help to work from my company.:)
That apart , I had requested them to deduct the retention amount in more installments which was approved.This has been the case with every lady here, & until now there hasn't been any case of unhappiness from any female lady .
At the end if you get all help right from work from home for first few months to your kid becoming individual & able to walk n communicate, any company would like to keep a check on commitment .
Thanks for all the comments & the reactions :)
thanks,
Pratibha
From China
This is Pratibha H.
Well I could read many reactions.I also read some one stating that's its surprising to come from one female HR
Kappu, yes, you should not be stressing yourself in such an inhuman work culture , your baby definitely deserves to not get affected & expects you to not affect it..Let me tell you my experience..
I have a kid, I did sign the bond with the company.Company had helped me for 2 years, right from the time i was asked for bed rest during pregnancy to after delivery, i was given all the flexibility & support, work from home & office , combinations & otherwise for these 2 years, There was a consultant hired to help me before & after delivery, unlike other companies who just give 3 months Sal & break.3 months salary was the entire salary , not just the basic n stuff like that.
This is the case of all the female employees expecting, Apart from mine there are other 3 case as on today where in one is working from home for first 3 months, other has a kid of 7 months & comes to office just for calls, we hire extra staff to not burden the pregnant lady...& many more things out of the act :)
When I was asked for the bond , I didn't have any second thought, since the company extended all possible help & made arrangement right from helping in commutation to office to arrangements for having meetings at home, members physically came home for the meetings, It was obvious for my company to expect me to stay longer with them & not resign after the kid , They wanted me to have a plan to work later as well, considering that I would get all help to work from my company.:)
That apart , I had requested them to deduct the retention amount in more installments which was approved.This has been the case with every lady here, & until now there hasn't been any case of unhappiness from any female lady .
At the end if you get all help right from work from home for first few months to your kid becoming individual & able to walk n communicate, any company would like to keep a check on commitment .
Thanks for all the comments & the reactions :)
thanks,
Pratibha
From China
Dear Ms.Pratibha
The following is your first post in this thread.
"Dear experts:
According to my company's Maternity Leave Policy, my one month's salary will be retained before going on maternity leave along with a written commitment of continued service with the company for a year.
I wish to know if Maternity Leave Policy covers such a 'clause'. Does my company have the right to legally implement such a clause?
Please provide me with the right knowledge of it.
Thank you,
Regards,
Kappu"
My post was in response to your query whether your company has the right to legally implement such a clause. It is you who have questioned whether the action of the Company is legal or not.
The second point is even though you and your colleagues have no grievance against this policy of the Company, that policy continues to be illegal. You may choose to ignore it. But all the same the policy is illegal. The illegal policies of a company cannot be clothed with legality with the consent of the worker. It is against the principles of law and jurisprudence.
From India, Madras
The following is your first post in this thread.
"Dear experts:
According to my company's Maternity Leave Policy, my one month's salary will be retained before going on maternity leave along with a written commitment of continued service with the company for a year.
I wish to know if Maternity Leave Policy covers such a 'clause'. Does my company have the right to legally implement such a clause?
Please provide me with the right knowledge of it.
Thank you,
Regards,
Kappu"
My post was in response to your query whether your company has the right to legally implement such a clause. It is you who have questioned whether the action of the Company is legal or not.
The second point is even though you and your colleagues have no grievance against this policy of the Company, that policy continues to be illegal. You may choose to ignore it. But all the same the policy is illegal. The illegal policies of a company cannot be clothed with legality with the consent of the worker. It is against the principles of law and jurisprudence.
From India, Madras
Dear V.Harikrishnan:
Just wanna bring to your notice the "POST" quoted in your reply
to Ms. Pratibha is mine and not hers. May be the following is what you intended to quote, which was her first post against the maternity policy I was confirming:
"1. Is the company not giving you maternity leaves?
2. It seems like they are asking a retention amount & a written commitment frm you to join back after 3 months of leaves
3. They are probably asking for a bond like few companies ask for a bond during joining.
4. How is this bond related to maternity benefit act?
5. What in the maternity benefit act they are violating? you must be definetly in a ITEs or an IT company whr such bond thing comes
6. you mentioned they will retain a months sal before you go on leave, are they withhelding the salary or is it in installments tht you can pay?"
Regards,
kappu
From India, Pune
Just wanna bring to your notice the "POST" quoted in your reply
to Ms. Pratibha is mine and not hers. May be the following is what you intended to quote, which was her first post against the maternity policy I was confirming:
"1. Is the company not giving you maternity leaves?
2. It seems like they are asking a retention amount & a written commitment frm you to join back after 3 months of leaves
3. They are probably asking for a bond like few companies ask for a bond during joining.
4. How is this bond related to maternity benefit act?
5. What in the maternity benefit act they are violating? you must be definetly in a ITEs or an IT company whr such bond thing comes
6. you mentioned they will retain a months sal before you go on leave, are they withhelding the salary or is it in installments tht you can pay?"
Regards,
kappu
From India, Pune
Hello Ms. Pratibha,
I don't think they are reactions rather humane responses. Well, not everybody could read between the lines! Like Mr. V. Harikrishnan has mentioned - "The illegal policies of a company cannot be clothed with legality with the consent of the worker. It is against the principles of law and jurisprudence."
Firstly, I'm not stressing myself. Everyone has the right to voice oneself - it's just that some are cowards to practice it! I dared to stand for what is right and that's all am trying to do! Whether I get the desired result or not doesn't bother me at all but I know I've not chosen to remain silent & accept anything like the others. I made a choice to be assertive about my situation and that is what matters to me & my conscience after all!
Secondly, the company & it's people should also have this consideration & realization in their approach & demeanour that the employee is pregnant!
Anything that is illegal is just ILLEGAL! Compensations or benefits can't make it LEGAL! You can't make WRONG RIGHT by doing it in installments!
No company can stop any employee from quitting - not even the bond! The supreme court has ruled long ago that any employee bond with a company is illegal/not accepted in INDIA. I've seen so many employees leaving companies even after having signed the bond. So, if they wanna go they'll go!! Think for yourself! You too are an employee!!
Committment cannot be demanded or commanded or even forced upon! It's to be gained by the company! If the employee believes the company is fair in its ways and approaches & that it cares for each of them equally, committment comes without saying!! Who would ever want to leave such a company or working culture ever, unless for some very personally inevitable circumstances!! This is what companies & its authorities largely fail to understand!!! I've known companies that give more than enough monetary help & moral support to their female employees going on maternity leaves and equally even after they return.
So, think over it if you care!
Further, in the name of company policy one can't make anything applicable because they are always discretionary! And usually anything that is discretionary cannot be justice or fair to all! If it's a policy of company/hr/govt. it should be applicable to everyone! Not everyone in a company is made to sign a bond every year - why? If it's a policy why for just one, two, or even three? Like I said you can't stop anyone from quitting else companies wouldn't have known what attrition is all about! Money can't make anything & everything hold on forever;job satisfaction becomes important to all of us at some point in time in our lives! That's why we see many times people moving down a level than they currently are on their career graph or starting something of their own, etc.!!
Again, like Mr. V. Harikrishnan added, "you seem to have ignored it". If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
kappu
From India, Pune
I don't think they are reactions rather humane responses. Well, not everybody could read between the lines! Like Mr. V. Harikrishnan has mentioned - "The illegal policies of a company cannot be clothed with legality with the consent of the worker. It is against the principles of law and jurisprudence."
Firstly, I'm not stressing myself. Everyone has the right to voice oneself - it's just that some are cowards to practice it! I dared to stand for what is right and that's all am trying to do! Whether I get the desired result or not doesn't bother me at all but I know I've not chosen to remain silent & accept anything like the others. I made a choice to be assertive about my situation and that is what matters to me & my conscience after all!
Secondly, the company & it's people should also have this consideration & realization in their approach & demeanour that the employee is pregnant!
Anything that is illegal is just ILLEGAL! Compensations or benefits can't make it LEGAL! You can't make WRONG RIGHT by doing it in installments!
No company can stop any employee from quitting - not even the bond! The supreme court has ruled long ago that any employee bond with a company is illegal/not accepted in INDIA. I've seen so many employees leaving companies even after having signed the bond. So, if they wanna go they'll go!! Think for yourself! You too are an employee!!
Committment cannot be demanded or commanded or even forced upon! It's to be gained by the company! If the employee believes the company is fair in its ways and approaches & that it cares for each of them equally, committment comes without saying!! Who would ever want to leave such a company or working culture ever, unless for some very personally inevitable circumstances!! This is what companies & its authorities largely fail to understand!!! I've known companies that give more than enough monetary help & moral support to their female employees going on maternity leaves and equally even after they return.
So, think over it if you care!
Further, in the name of company policy one can't make anything applicable because they are always discretionary! And usually anything that is discretionary cannot be justice or fair to all! If it's a policy of company/hr/govt. it should be applicable to everyone! Not everyone in a company is made to sign a bond every year - why? If it's a policy why for just one, two, or even three? Like I said you can't stop anyone from quitting else companies wouldn't have known what attrition is all about! Money can't make anything & everything hold on forever;job satisfaction becomes important to all of us at some point in time in our lives! That's why we see many times people moving down a level than they currently are on their career graph or starting something of their own, etc.!!
Again, like Mr. V. Harikrishnan added, "you seem to have ignored it". If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
kappu
From India, Pune
Good explanation by Kappu. It bridges the gap between knowledge and understanding. regards, Kamal
From India, Pune
From India, Pune
Dear V.Harikrishnan:
I agree to what you have mentioned & take your point that its illegal.
I would definetly get it verfified from other lawyers & confirm,
If it concludes as illegal we would definetly change it , ALSO change our legal advisors.
It means its time to change our lawyers!!
The fact is no company implements policies without passing the legal advice!!
Well, I learnt a lesson -----to get things verified from atleast two legal firms!!
Thanks for the advice!!
From China
I agree to what you have mentioned & take your point that its illegal.
I would definetly get it verfified from other lawyers & confirm,
If it concludes as illegal we would definetly change it , ALSO change our legal advisors.
It means its time to change our lawyers!!
The fact is no company implements policies without passing the legal advice!!
Well, I learnt a lesson -----to get things verified from atleast two legal firms!!
Thanks for the advice!!
From China
Sure Mr. V.Krishnan and Thank you Mr. Kamal Prasoon. :-)
Pratibha, you finally seem to have got the point & thought about acting on it! Good for you & the employees of the company! Get it verified as many times as you'd like but implement the change without delay! Even this forum is a great place to verify and validate information related to labor and employee relations! Infact it's the professionals, experts & seniors right from HR Heads to Joint Commissioners of Employee-Labor Relations field who have been posting here.
Pratibha - one more thing, if you happen to revise the maternity policy of company now it would be very unfair to the employees who have undergone it & the ones who are undergoing it. Have you thought about dealing with this situation? If not you must!
Once again thank you everybody!
From India, Pune
Pratibha, you finally seem to have got the point & thought about acting on it! Good for you & the employees of the company! Get it verified as many times as you'd like but implement the change without delay! Even this forum is a great place to verify and validate information related to labor and employee relations! Infact it's the professionals, experts & seniors right from HR Heads to Joint Commissioners of Employee-Labor Relations field who have been posting here.
Pratibha - one more thing, if you happen to revise the maternity policy of company now it would be very unfair to the employees who have undergone it & the ones who are undergoing it. Have you thought about dealing with this situation? If not you must!
Once again thank you everybody!
From India, Pune
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Maternity Benefit is not Salary.docx
Creche under Maternity Benefit Act.pdf