Hi Chitra
I fully agree with what Octavious has said. In fact when i was going through the tread, the first thing that came to my mind was, how come the company name is disclosed.
Any how email communications, letter of appointment, etc are good support for your case.
JMK
From India, Hyderabad
5I fully agree with what Octavious has said. In fact when i was going through the tread, the first thing that came to my mind was, how come the company name is disclosed.
Any how email communications, letter of appointment, etc are good support for your case.
JMK
From India, Hyderabad
"However, the employee got on his knees and begged to not disclose the reasons of terminations in letter for his secure career his request is been considered on humanity grounds and the termination letter was issued accordingly, company also paid him one months due salary for his working period with other allowance like bonus and leave pays.."
.
Above facts are very important and in fact the turning point in the whole episode.
Termination of an employee could be on different grounds. In this case, right from begining, it appears that there was a case of bad behaviour which led to dicision of his termination. However, if he had to be terminated on this ground, there was a need to follow established procedure of disciplinary actions in terms of relevant service conditions.He was required to be considered for any salary or notice period.
For other than disciplinary ground if his services were to be terminated, there was only one option in this case to follow the termination clause in his offer of appointment or other service conditions. If it is by either side through a notice for three months or salary in lieu thereof, same should have been followed.
As neither of above has been done, and you landed up terminating his services without assigning any reason by giving one month salary, the terminated employee has a point. In my view, his demand for three months salary in the given situation( not terminated on the ground of discipline) holds water.
From India, Pune
.
Above facts are very important and in fact the turning point in the whole episode.
Termination of an employee could be on different grounds. In this case, right from begining, it appears that there was a case of bad behaviour which led to dicision of his termination. However, if he had to be terminated on this ground, there was a need to follow established procedure of disciplinary actions in terms of relevant service conditions.He was required to be considered for any salary or notice period.
For other than disciplinary ground if his services were to be terminated, there was only one option in this case to follow the termination clause in his offer of appointment or other service conditions. If it is by either side through a notice for three months or salary in lieu thereof, same should have been followed.
As neither of above has been done, and you landed up terminating his services without assigning any reason by giving one month salary, the terminated employee has a point. In my view, his demand for three months salary in the given situation( not terminated on the ground of discipline) holds water.
From India, Pune
Hello Chitralekha,
Many friends contributing their valuable suggestions about this, but to win the case proof are required.
Court give result on the basis of proof only and as said nothing is written.
U should create proof of his rudeness with subordinates and juniors in written form with backdated with reminder as a 1,2,3.
Create all proof of meetings regarding his behavior.
Contact Adv.for further guideline
From India, Pune
Many friends contributing their valuable suggestions about this, but to win the case proof are required.
Court give result on the basis of proof only and as said nothing is written.
U should create proof of his rudeness with subordinates and juniors in written form with backdated with reminder as a 1,2,3.
Create all proof of meetings regarding his behavior.
Contact Adv.for further guideline
From India, Pune
Hi Chitralekha,
My suggestion is very clear and simple - " no need to give him even one single day salary and don't afraid with this issue other wise other employees will blackmail you in future"
You are right, take stand and set examples for others.
Chill HR
From India, Gurgaon
My suggestion is very clear and simple - " no need to give him even one single day salary and don't afraid with this issue other wise other employees will blackmail you in future"
You are right, take stand and set examples for others.
Chill HR
From India, Gurgaon
Hi Chitralakha
a) The termination of an employee's services under ref. is for certain misconduct as mentioned by you. But this is not duly proved either by notice/enquiry or any documentary evidence, which is required in the court. The domastic enquiry, which we conduct for misconducts mentioned in Standing Orders not required, but least you could show to all employees that, you have given ample opportunity. This could have given strong message in the organisation
b) If in the termination order you have mentioned the misconduct & related details for which you have terminated the services, then its OK. but if you have merely terminted services without any reference to misconduct then you have to pay notice salary.
c) I have mentioned the above because, if his termination is set aside in the court,then court can enhance the compensation,
d) Since the employee under ref. is not workman as defined under I D Act 1947, the remidy of re-instatement with or without full back wages is not available to him.
e) These type of incidences shows that how the HR handling the complicated issues.
SDP
From India, Kolhapur
a) The termination of an employee's services under ref. is for certain misconduct as mentioned by you. But this is not duly proved either by notice/enquiry or any documentary evidence, which is required in the court. The domastic enquiry, which we conduct for misconducts mentioned in Standing Orders not required, but least you could show to all employees that, you have given ample opportunity. This could have given strong message in the organisation
b) If in the termination order you have mentioned the misconduct & related details for which you have terminated the services, then its OK. but if you have merely terminted services without any reference to misconduct then you have to pay notice salary.
c) I have mentioned the above because, if his termination is set aside in the court,then court can enhance the compensation,
d) Since the employee under ref. is not workman as defined under I D Act 1947, the remidy of re-instatement with or without full back wages is not available to him.
e) These type of incidences shows that how the HR handling the complicated issues.
SDP
From India, Kolhapur
Dear Chitraleka,
I endorse views of Mr.Govindsingnegi. The whole issue hinges on two aspects;1.The notice period mentioned in your appointment letter and 2. The reason cited for termination in your termination letter.
It seems that you have not mentioned in your termination letter Misconduct as ground for termination. If so you may not have good case in court of law in the absence of unequivocal evidence regarding the misbehaviour/ misconduct of the terminated employee.Of course you have said there was a email circulation among the members of top management about his refusal to receive the notice. But it will be attacked by the employee's side as subjective evidence unless you have any other evidence pertaining to the ousted employee's deliberate refusal to receive the notice. As Mr.Govingsing rightly said if you had sent a notice by R.P.A.D and if he had refused to receive the same it would have been an evidence of wilful refusal to receive the notice. Since you have not done so you cannot take a stand of wilful refusal to receive the notice.Besides that if you have obtained any written request from the employee for not mentioning misconduct as the reason for termination and consequently you have not mentioned the same reason based on humanitarian consideration you can use that letter as an evidence against him.
If you have not obtained any written request for not mentioning misconduct as reason for termination, the terminated employee's claim for 3 months compensation may be held correct by the Court. So it is prudent to pay him the compensation and treat such payment as expenditure to learn a lesson about people and procedures instead of wasting time, energy and money on legal process.
From India, Chennai
I endorse views of Mr.Govindsingnegi. The whole issue hinges on two aspects;1.The notice period mentioned in your appointment letter and 2. The reason cited for termination in your termination letter.
It seems that you have not mentioned in your termination letter Misconduct as ground for termination. If so you may not have good case in court of law in the absence of unequivocal evidence regarding the misbehaviour/ misconduct of the terminated employee.Of course you have said there was a email circulation among the members of top management about his refusal to receive the notice. But it will be attacked by the employee's side as subjective evidence unless you have any other evidence pertaining to the ousted employee's deliberate refusal to receive the notice. As Mr.Govingsing rightly said if you had sent a notice by R.P.A.D and if he had refused to receive the same it would have been an evidence of wilful refusal to receive the notice. Since you have not done so you cannot take a stand of wilful refusal to receive the notice.Besides that if you have obtained any written request from the employee for not mentioning misconduct as the reason for termination and consequently you have not mentioned the same reason based on humanitarian consideration you can use that letter as an evidence against him.
If you have not obtained any written request for not mentioning misconduct as reason for termination, the terminated employee's claim for 3 months compensation may be held correct by the Court. So it is prudent to pay him the compensation and treat such payment as expenditure to learn a lesson about people and procedures instead of wasting time, energy and money on legal process.
From India, Chennai
HI, I want to know if the company is terminating any employee then what is the process and what has to company pay for the termination. Regards Nitesh M.S
From India, Bangalore
From India, Bangalore
Dear Chitralekha
SR HR ADM Officer
I have gone through your noting and also comments of many senior members. I know they are not wrong and may be administratively right up to some extent, may be they are too strict. I tell you for your future as one day you will be HR Head of some organisation and please remember this thing “If ever you are not left with any way out and have to sack someone due to reason except embezzlement, pay him all the dues including the leave pay etc. and show him your company is generous and it’s he who has forced you to sack him.
Anyway we go to present problem so if possible please submit the following to your MD.
1. It appears the COO of your Pune Unit is hiding something and maybe he was responsible to some extent for the rude behavior of that person towards some of the employees.
2. Your Company is not having any documentary proof to back the claims of your COO or HR.
3. Your HR has not followed the set procedures required before sacking of an official, that too at level of Sr. Finance Manager. I also presume that manager was quite efficient in his work as you don’t have any complaint about his efficiency.
4. Your MD was right in wishing to pay him the notice period salary, which your COO has declined due to his personal Vendetta against this Officer. Your Company does not have any prove to counter the claim of that manager in court of law.
Now come to the court case, So I tell you the outcome on the basis of given facts, that is your Company will lose this case and that too with cost and damages. Moreover if the Advocate appointed by the Manager is a real expert your company may be forced to take him back to service.
I feel to void all this botheration you may fix up a meeting with that manager by calling him to office. I doubt that person may not speak to the HR head as he was party in his sacking so if your MD agrees, request him to speak to the manager, that will not only pacify him and sort out the problem but also may be Company can get some information about some wrong doings at Pune Unit. To hide which that person was removed. More over if the person was efficient and honest there is a chance that he has rectified his mistakes and can be used at some other unit. Please remember honest Finance people are mostly blamed by dishonest employees as rude or arrogant.
One thing I am sure after meeting with MD and paying him the dues he will be pacified and agree to withdraw the court case.
One last thing remember always try to avoid sacking any employee and even if you have to sack one jut pay him generously unless he has committed some embezzlement so he should feel guilty for his mistakes.
From India, Delhi
SR HR ADM Officer
I have gone through your noting and also comments of many senior members. I know they are not wrong and may be administratively right up to some extent, may be they are too strict. I tell you for your future as one day you will be HR Head of some organisation and please remember this thing “If ever you are not left with any way out and have to sack someone due to reason except embezzlement, pay him all the dues including the leave pay etc. and show him your company is generous and it’s he who has forced you to sack him.
Anyway we go to present problem so if possible please submit the following to your MD.
1. It appears the COO of your Pune Unit is hiding something and maybe he was responsible to some extent for the rude behavior of that person towards some of the employees.
2. Your Company is not having any documentary proof to back the claims of your COO or HR.
3. Your HR has not followed the set procedures required before sacking of an official, that too at level of Sr. Finance Manager. I also presume that manager was quite efficient in his work as you don’t have any complaint about his efficiency.
4. Your MD was right in wishing to pay him the notice period salary, which your COO has declined due to his personal Vendetta against this Officer. Your Company does not have any prove to counter the claim of that manager in court of law.
Now come to the court case, So I tell you the outcome on the basis of given facts, that is your Company will lose this case and that too with cost and damages. Moreover if the Advocate appointed by the Manager is a real expert your company may be forced to take him back to service.
I feel to void all this botheration you may fix up a meeting with that manager by calling him to office. I doubt that person may not speak to the HR head as he was party in his sacking so if your MD agrees, request him to speak to the manager, that will not only pacify him and sort out the problem but also may be Company can get some information about some wrong doings at Pune Unit. To hide which that person was removed. More over if the person was efficient and honest there is a chance that he has rectified his mistakes and can be used at some other unit. Please remember honest Finance people are mostly blamed by dishonest employees as rude or arrogant.
One thing I am sure after meeting with MD and paying him the dues he will be pacified and agree to withdraw the court case.
One last thing remember always try to avoid sacking any employee and even if you have to sack one jut pay him generously unless he has committed some embezzlement so he should feel guilty for his mistakes.
From India, Delhi
Dear chitra,
Please pay him three months salary as mentioned in the appointment letter and your company can't fight this case with successive drive,here you should be taken care when he was bagging ,not to disclose the termination reason on his full & final letter,you should have asked him to write a apology letter by stating about his career and by seeing his request not to disclose the termination issue.
The time has gone now and no need to fight for further.
Best Regards
sajid
From India, Delhi
Please pay him three months salary as mentioned in the appointment letter and your company can't fight this case with successive drive,here you should be taken care when he was bagging ,not to disclose the termination reason on his full & final letter,you should have asked him to write a apology letter by stating about his career and by seeing his request not to disclose the termination issue.
The time has gone now and no need to fight for further.
Best Regards
sajid
From India, Delhi
Dear chitra Lekha,
After going through the above deliberations on the subject by you, and others, I had other opinions.
If you want to fight the case, it is OK as long as you are right from your side. But , imagine, a company employee leaves and joins other, and he talks positively about your company, does it not an image booster of your company...? Here, in this case, there is clear evidence that employee has mis behaved.. inspite of several warnings and councelling.. However, if you look on the other side, there is humanitarian aspects also.... The reasons for misbehavior can be due do some illness, or family issues, or some kind of frustrations... Having decided to terminate, it is human, if your company pays him 3 months notice pay and close the matter once for all... This will solve lot of head aches, money expenditure on the both side (employer and terminated employee, after all the issue here now is paying 3 months notice pay only... Here you should also consider the service period of the employee into account also....).
Regards,
From India, Mumbai
After going through the above deliberations on the subject by you, and others, I had other opinions.
If you want to fight the case, it is OK as long as you are right from your side. But , imagine, a company employee leaves and joins other, and he talks positively about your company, does it not an image booster of your company...? Here, in this case, there is clear evidence that employee has mis behaved.. inspite of several warnings and councelling.. However, if you look on the other side, there is humanitarian aspects also.... The reasons for misbehavior can be due do some illness, or family issues, or some kind of frustrations... Having decided to terminate, it is human, if your company pays him 3 months notice pay and close the matter once for all... This will solve lot of head aches, money expenditure on the both side (employer and terminated employee, after all the issue here now is paying 3 months notice pay only... Here you should also consider the service period of the employee into account also....).
Regards,
From India, Mumbai
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