Dear Seniors, In a company, A HR Manager has completed his 58 yrs and rtd but retained by the company as a consultant (3rd party) , can he sign Compliance related document, is it correct? In other words, A HR Manager hired on 3rd party roll (outsourced) legally eligible to sign compliance-related doc of 1st party ie. principle company?
From India, Dehra Dun
4From India, Dehra Dun
From a contract point of you, any document can be signed by any two parties within the legal domain. For example you can not sign a document for an antisocial cause.
When some one becomes a consultant, he is no longer the company employee but a person who works for the betterment of the company.
Please bear in mind that responsibilities for legal or internal administrative matters will be only with those who are on the permanent rolls of the company.
To protect your company's interests, you can retain the essence of the compliance document suitably modified and have a seperate contract signed between your company and consultant.
V.Raghunathan
From India
When some one becomes a consultant, he is no longer the company employee but a person who works for the betterment of the company.
Please bear in mind that responsibilities for legal or internal administrative matters will be only with those who are on the permanent rolls of the company.
To protect your company's interests, you can retain the essence of the compliance document suitably modified and have a seperate contract signed between your company and consultant.
V.Raghunathan
From India
Generally companies will not designate a consultant as a manager with statutory responsibility. So as such it's a bad idea. There is nothing in law preventing a consultant from signing a compliance. But when some problem arises, this fact may be an issue.
Probably he should then be hired as Fixed Term Employee instead
From India, Mumbai
Probably he should then be hired as Fixed Term Employee instead
From India, Mumbai
Hello Ashe,
Saswats Banerjee's suggested is BOTH implementable & practical.
You can hire him as a Fixed Term Employee....meaning on Contract directly by the Principal Company. And his Contract should contain the appropriate clauses that clearly define the powers you wish him to have. The Contract can be extended periodically as per needs.
I know of a person with age of >60 yrs hired this way @ a senior level who also signs Int'nal Documents.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Saswats Banerjee's suggested is BOTH implementable & practical.
You can hire him as a Fixed Term Employee....meaning on Contract directly by the Principal Company. And his Contract should contain the appropriate clauses that clearly define the powers you wish him to have. The Contract can be extended periodically as per needs.
I know of a person with age of >60 yrs hired this way @ a senior level who also signs Int'nal Documents.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Respected Seniors,
It is a good question by the initiator of this thread.
Can any third party / out source employee be authorised to sign any documents on behalf of Principal? This is the question the initiator has asked.
We may be seeing any body is signing any thing. But is it legal?
I have another questions to you with due respect to you all, as under:
What is Fix Term Employment?
Under what law the term "Fix Term Employment" is written?
How you can appoint an employee on his retirement or on his resignation as Fix Term Employee?
How you can take any senior level person on out source?
What is the legal validity to out source?
Answers to above questions in the parameter of Indian Laws will be enlightening to all who will be reading it.
From India, Mumbai
It is a good question by the initiator of this thread.
Can any third party / out source employee be authorised to sign any documents on behalf of Principal? This is the question the initiator has asked.
We may be seeing any body is signing any thing. But is it legal?
I have another questions to you with due respect to you all, as under:
What is Fix Term Employment?
Under what law the term "Fix Term Employment" is written?
How you can appoint an employee on his retirement or on his resignation as Fix Term Employee?
How you can take any senior level person on out source?
What is the legal validity to out source?
Answers to above questions in the parameter of Indian Laws will be enlightening to all who will be reading it.
From India, Mumbai
The "Fix Term Employment" essentially comes under the Contracts Act Korgaonkar.
At least that was the case in the example I mentioned & it's been working fine since 2012--and I was told it's perfectly legal by the MD of the Company [a Public Limited one].
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
At least that was the case in the example I mentioned & it's been working fine since 2012--and I was told it's perfectly legal by the MD of the Company [a Public Limited one].
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
The concept of fixed term employee is defined in ID act, as already stated by others.
Even otherwise, there is nothing in Indian law to prevent any person from working under a specific contract of employment that clearly states his terms of employment and includes a termination clause. The only requirement is that he can not contract away any of his rights under the labour law. The only one he can contract away is his retrenchment compensation because the ID act says this is not retrenchment if the contract is not renewed.
On the other part of the question you have posted, law does not prevent the company from designating any person as authorised to sign any document of the company. And he does not have to be an employee. He can be any person. It is the right of the owner of the business to decide whom he will trust to best represent him. The only place where the option is not available is the position of occupier of a factory. That has to be a director of the company.
So, it is actually legally correct for the company to designate an employee, a FTE, off roll / contract employee or even a non employee (say a family member). Such a person can be given any designation also, other than an occupier. I think even for manager of a factory there is no such restriction.
From India, Mumbai
Even otherwise, there is nothing in Indian law to prevent any person from working under a specific contract of employment that clearly states his terms of employment and includes a termination clause. The only requirement is that he can not contract away any of his rights under the labour law. The only one he can contract away is his retrenchment compensation because the ID act says this is not retrenchment if the contract is not renewed.
On the other part of the question you have posted, law does not prevent the company from designating any person as authorised to sign any document of the company. And he does not have to be an employee. He can be any person. It is the right of the owner of the business to decide whom he will trust to best represent him. The only place where the option is not available is the position of occupier of a factory. That has to be a director of the company.
So, it is actually legally correct for the company to designate an employee, a FTE, off roll / contract employee or even a non employee (say a family member). Such a person can be given any designation also, other than an occupier. I think even for manager of a factory there is no such restriction.
From India, Mumbai
1. Sir,the initiator of this thread has mentioned the words "legally eligible to sign compliance related doc of 1st part ie. principle", whereas learned senior expert Sh. Banerjee ji has mentioned the term "There is nothing in law preventing a consultant from signing a compliance" I could not understand as to which of the documents are called "compliance related documents". Whether such documents are to be submitted to the principal employer or owners of the unit by the so called CONSULTANT or to any other authority.
2. I request the initiator of this thread or to seniors to kindly elaborate following aspects for my knowledge:-
(a) which of the documents are called "compliance related documents" and under which laws or Acts.
(b) whether such "compliance related documents" are submitted by the consultant to the employer or to any government authorities like Factory Inspector, Labour Court, PF Office etc. etc.
From India, Noida
2. I request the initiator of this thread or to seniors to kindly elaborate following aspects for my knowledge:-
(a) which of the documents are called "compliance related documents" and under which laws or Acts.
(b) whether such "compliance related documents" are submitted by the consultant to the employer or to any government authorities like Factory Inspector, Labour Court, PF Office etc. etc.
From India, Noida
Hello Harsh Kumar Mehta,
'Compliance related documents' essentially mean those Docs that need to be submitted to either begin or continue the compliance of any aspect vis-a-vis the Company/factory.......for eg., ISO or AS9100 or CMM Certifications, etc.
There is a whole bunch of Docs that are needed to be prepared for getting such certifications OR once the Company has such certifications, to renew periodically....and these Docs are based on the Practices/Processes/Systems followed in that Company.
What's related to Govt Bodies are predominantly 'statutory' in nature. So they wouldn't form a part of this definition.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
'Compliance related documents' essentially mean those Docs that need to be submitted to either begin or continue the compliance of any aspect vis-a-vis the Company/factory.......for eg., ISO or AS9100 or CMM Certifications, etc.
There is a whole bunch of Docs that are needed to be prepared for getting such certifications OR once the Company has such certifications, to renew periodically....and these Docs are based on the Practices/Processes/Systems followed in that Company.
What's related to Govt Bodies are predominantly 'statutory' in nature. So they wouldn't form a part of this definition.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
1. Dear Sh. Tajsateesh ji, thanks for advising me as to what is the meaning of "compliance related documents". But the initiator of this thread has not mentioned specifically as to which of the documents the said CONSULTANT is signing ? Therefore, it becomes difficult to examine the issue in right perspective. Whether the said ex-HR Manager, now a CONSULTANT is signing all the correspondence sent to the offices of govt. departments viz. the Chief Inspector of Factories, EPF Commissioner, Regional Director ESIC, Fire Brigade Office, Estate Office, Police Department etc. etc. If so, whether the said consultant is signing the said documents as Consultant or as an EMPLOYER or for EMPLOYER.
2. Whether , the returns, reports etc. to be sent to various departments under various labour laws, revenue laws etc.are not "COMPLIANCE RELATED DOCUMENTS" ? Whether there are different type of compliances viz-statutory compliance, ISO or AS9100 or CMM Certifications compliance etc. The discussion on the issues whether the said CONSULTANT is in full time employment, or part-time employment etc. appears to me of no importance. I hope, seniors will guide me on the issues as above.
3. So far as I understand to make the compliance for various requirements of obtaining ISO certification etc. are the internal matters of any organisation and in such matters employer/owner of any unit can delegate his authority or functions to any person even if he is a CONSULTANT. But in respect of statutory compliance matters, I am doubtful if the employer can delegate his authority to any so called consultant to sign the documents under various laws including revenue laws.
From India, Noida
2. Whether , the returns, reports etc. to be sent to various departments under various labour laws, revenue laws etc.are not "COMPLIANCE RELATED DOCUMENTS" ? Whether there are different type of compliances viz-statutory compliance, ISO or AS9100 or CMM Certifications compliance etc. The discussion on the issues whether the said CONSULTANT is in full time employment, or part-time employment etc. appears to me of no importance. I hope, seniors will guide me on the issues as above.
3. So far as I understand to make the compliance for various requirements of obtaining ISO certification etc. are the internal matters of any organisation and in such matters employer/owner of any unit can delegate his authority or functions to any person even if he is a CONSULTANT. But in respect of statutory compliance matters, I am doubtful if the employer can delegate his authority to any so called consultant to sign the documents under various laws including revenue laws.
From India, Noida
Find answers from people who have previously dealt with business and work issues similar to yours - Please Register and Log In to CiteHR and post your query.
152120-very-use ful-hr-manageme nt-software-bui lt-excel-psa-hr -manager-mainta in-payrrol-exce l-soft.zip
Anand Kumar- HR Manager.doc