Hi, I was working with one organization. My manager was changed and I did not had my new manager's contact no. I was on approved leave from the previous manager from 16th October 2012 to 30th October 2012. But due to certain circumstances, I was unable to join the organization on 31st October. Since, I did not had my new manager's no. I called up my SME who was the next supervisor of my team, and told him that I will only be able to join the office on 19th of November 2012, which I did. But, my new manager said he absconded me because I did not informed him but SME.
I had a meeting with him, my senior manager and HR manager. and the discussion was about why I did not informed my reporting manager.I said I did not had his no so I called the SME. They said that that they will not take me back.
Now I receive a letter stating that I owe FnF settlement money to them that is my one month salary against notice period. Should I really have been absconded even after I informed SME of my team? And I did not informed my manager because I did not had his no. Should I really pay them the amount as I was not told to serve the notice period but to leave?
Please help.
From India, New Delhi
I had a meeting with him, my senior manager and HR manager. and the discussion was about why I did not informed my reporting manager.I said I did not had his no so I called the SME. They said that that they will not take me back.
Now I receive a letter stating that I owe FnF settlement money to them that is my one month salary against notice period. Should I really have been absconded even after I informed SME of my team? And I did not informed my manager because I did not had his no. Should I really pay them the amount as I was not told to serve the notice period but to leave?
Please help.
From India, New Delhi
Dear sshres02,
You need to write a letter to the company stating the fact, immediately and built up your file.
You are advised to report your company with this letter. If your company refuse to accept your letter and do not permit you to report, you are further advised to sent this letter by Regd. A.D. with remark on it saying the fact that this letter was refused to accept by company ( name of officer) on ....... at ..... time and hence the same is being sent Regd. A.D.
You need to approach an advocate or union representative for further action against the company.
Draft letter is as under:
To,
................
Dear Sir,
I am surprised to receive a letter from you dated ...... asking from me one month salary towards notice period.
I have not resigned from my services and therefore payment of one month salary towards notice period does not arise.
In fact you have denied employment to me from ........... onwards with out any ground or giving me any letter and hence you are liable to pay me salary for November 2012 -....days, December 2012 - full month and for January 2013 - full month.
I was on sanctioned leave from ............ to .................... I was supposed to resume my duty on ......... But due to ......(reason)...... I could not resumed on .......... On ...... I informed Mr........... to whom I report about my inability to resume on ...... and further informed him that I will be resuming on ......... .
Accordingly, on ....... I resumed my duty as informed to Mr. ..... to whom I report. But I was not permitted to report my duties.
Your above action by which I was not permitted to report duty is not accordance with law. Your letter dated ..... asking me to pay towards notice period is also illegal. I am mentally disturbed due to your this illegal action.
You are requested to kindly allow me to attend my duties immediately and pay my salary which is not paid to me for November 2012 to January 2013 failing which I will have no other option but to take appropriate legal steps against the company.
From India, Mumbai
2555You need to write a letter to the company stating the fact, immediately and built up your file.
You are advised to report your company with this letter. If your company refuse to accept your letter and do not permit you to report, you are further advised to sent this letter by Regd. A.D. with remark on it saying the fact that this letter was refused to accept by company ( name of officer) on ....... at ..... time and hence the same is being sent Regd. A.D.
You need to approach an advocate or union representative for further action against the company.
Draft letter is as under:
To,
................
Dear Sir,
I am surprised to receive a letter from you dated ...... asking from me one month salary towards notice period.
I have not resigned from my services and therefore payment of one month salary towards notice period does not arise.
In fact you have denied employment to me from ........... onwards with out any ground or giving me any letter and hence you are liable to pay me salary for November 2012 -....days, December 2012 - full month and for January 2013 - full month.
I was on sanctioned leave from ............ to .................... I was supposed to resume my duty on ......... But due to ......(reason)...... I could not resumed on .......... On ...... I informed Mr........... to whom I report about my inability to resume on ...... and further informed him that I will be resuming on ......... .
Accordingly, on ....... I resumed my duty as informed to Mr. ..... to whom I report. But I was not permitted to report my duties.
Your above action by which I was not permitted to report duty is not accordance with law. Your letter dated ..... asking me to pay towards notice period is also illegal. I am mentally disturbed due to your this illegal action.
You are requested to kindly allow me to attend my duties immediately and pay my salary which is not paid to me for November 2012 to January 2013 failing which I will have no other option but to take appropriate legal steps against the company.
From India, Mumbai
Chill Chill Chill Buddy!!
Mr. Shres mistake is yours because you have not followed the proper channel of communication. you said that you didn't have the number of new manager then you could call on office landline number (must be printed on your offerletter / appointment letter). Even you could write an email to the concern department but you didn't.
Companies have policy to terminate the employee if he/she is absent for continuous 4 days and you are one of them.
Check your appointment letter and read the terms and conditions carefully for better understanding.
Well your Company have also done some mistakes, i.e They have not sent you letter stating to resume duties.
They may not terminate the person straight away if the person is not on probation period. If you are on probation period then they can terminate your service without assigning any reason but they must not ask for Notice Pay.
No one is on right path, you need to check the appointment letter and look for the wayout.
Chill HR
From India, Gurgaon
Mr. Shres mistake is yours because you have not followed the proper channel of communication. you said that you didn't have the number of new manager then you could call on office landline number (must be printed on your offerletter / appointment letter). Even you could write an email to the concern department but you didn't.
Companies have policy to terminate the employee if he/she is absent for continuous 4 days and you are one of them.
Check your appointment letter and read the terms and conditions carefully for better understanding.
Well your Company have also done some mistakes, i.e They have not sent you letter stating to resume duties.
They may not terminate the person straight away if the person is not on probation period. If you are on probation period then they can terminate your service without assigning any reason but they must not ask for Notice Pay.
No one is on right path, you need to check the appointment letter and look for the wayout.
Chill HR
From India, Gurgaon
Hi,
I would like to make couple of points on this:
1. Leave is not a right, it needs to be sanctioned. In your company who is your leave sanctioning athourity. Who has been sanctioning your leaves in the past? Is it the SME or the Manager?
2. In case on termination, in most circumstances Company can not ask for notice period shortfall. Because It is the Company which is asking you to go and not you deciding to leave.
I feel the best way ahead will be to speak to senior line management and senior HR Management to resolve the issue. In case you have served the Company for long and if your past record has been good it should help you in the discussion. Also the reason for extension of leave is important.
In case Company does not agree to your request of appointing you back then take the help of an advocate to reply to the company for waiver of shortfall notice pay
Regards,
Ravish
From India, Mumbai
I would like to make couple of points on this:
1. Leave is not a right, it needs to be sanctioned. In your company who is your leave sanctioning athourity. Who has been sanctioning your leaves in the past? Is it the SME or the Manager?
2. In case on termination, in most circumstances Company can not ask for notice period shortfall. Because It is the Company which is asking you to go and not you deciding to leave.
I feel the best way ahead will be to speak to senior line management and senior HR Management to resolve the issue. In case you have served the Company for long and if your past record has been good it should help you in the discussion. Also the reason for extension of leave is important.
In case Company does not agree to your request of appointing you back then take the help of an advocate to reply to the company for waiver of shortfall notice pay
Regards,
Ravish
From India, Mumbai
Hi
I have seen this happen many times, so my sympathy is not with you.
Employees take leave, in some cases shorter cause they know onager leave will be refused (mostly as critical work is pending or the employee does not have leave). Then they call and say they can't join, need extension, ticket not available, grand mother sick, etc.
Again, the other trick is. It to call the relevant manager but a junior and ask them to convey the matter to the manager. It's an old trick, that few companies accept.
Tell me, would not it be the easiest thing to tell your SME : I don't have the new managers number, please SMS it to me. Or can out please pass the line to him so I can speak to him ? Can you please leave a message on his desk with my mobile number.
They have rightly assessed this as deliberate and preplanned.
You have already had a meeting with hr and your manager and they don't want you back, so you have no choice in that matter. I assume industrial dispute act does not apply to you either.
The only point you are in the right is that you do not have to pay for notice as it was waived by the management. You were not terminated, I assume. Most probably they asked you to resign.i hope the acceptance was in writing and notice waived was written (or accepted with immediate effect). I hope your resignation letter did not say please relieve me with immediate effect (that would mean you are asking for waiver and you have to pay).
Ou need to write to the company and point out that they have asked you not to come to office during notice period and instead to leave with immediate effect and therefore there is no,question of notice pay. Tell them you were very much willing to serve full notice period.
Not having details of your appointment letter or other related matter,I do not know what you mean when you talk of recovery of money. What is the money that you have to,get from them ?
From India, Mumbai
I have seen this happen many times, so my sympathy is not with you.
Employees take leave, in some cases shorter cause they know onager leave will be refused (mostly as critical work is pending or the employee does not have leave). Then they call and say they can't join, need extension, ticket not available, grand mother sick, etc.
Again, the other trick is. It to call the relevant manager but a junior and ask them to convey the matter to the manager. It's an old trick, that few companies accept.
Tell me, would not it be the easiest thing to tell your SME : I don't have the new managers number, please SMS it to me. Or can out please pass the line to him so I can speak to him ? Can you please leave a message on his desk with my mobile number.
They have rightly assessed this as deliberate and preplanned.
You have already had a meeting with hr and your manager and they don't want you back, so you have no choice in that matter. I assume industrial dispute act does not apply to you either.
The only point you are in the right is that you do not have to pay for notice as it was waived by the management. You were not terminated, I assume. Most probably they asked you to resign.i hope the acceptance was in writing and notice waived was written (or accepted with immediate effect). I hope your resignation letter did not say please relieve me with immediate effect (that would mean you are asking for waiver and you have to pay).
Ou need to write to the company and point out that they have asked you not to come to office during notice period and instead to leave with immediate effect and therefore there is no,question of notice pay. Tell them you were very much willing to serve full notice period.
Not having details of your appointment letter or other related matter,I do not know what you mean when you talk of recovery of money. What is the money that you have to,get from them ?
From India, Mumbai
Hi Sshresh,
Firstly, you said you were on leave from 16th Oct to 30th Oct.
The leave was approved by your previous manager.
Manager changed and you didnt have his number.
How did you know manager changed? Any source of information?
When you got to know your manager has changed, did you try to find out his point of contact. Sure if you were resuming on the date you've mentioned, it would not have been an issue if you personally wish to ask him. But when you got to know you wouldn't be able to resume on committed date did you inform him?
Ideally you should have informed him, the HR in your firm and any other reporting person. You reported to SME because you said you didn't had new manager's number. Appreciate your gesture. But after informing him you could have asked him how should you reach new manager so that you can tell him as well.
Why did you not keep your HR In loop of this? Was this a carefree attitude or a genuine cause is something I wouldn't bang on, but I would say the scope for both are equal. You might have genuinely been stuck up somewhere but the major question is why were reporting manager(s) not informed and why was hr not in the loop.
Please go and meet all your reporting heads and hr together and try to explain the matter again. I won't say that would help you to be back in the firm but if they could reduce the impact of the absconding title on your relieving letter (depends on the genuiness of your case. As I said it was a fault on your part not to inform your manager nor keeping your HR in loop for reference.)
In your FnF ideally there should not be any notice period pay from your end as the service is terminated from their end. If you have any liability (advanced salary or loan or other such outstanding repayments) would be recovered though.
Hope the issue is clearer now
From India, Mumbai
Firstly, you said you were on leave from 16th Oct to 30th Oct.
The leave was approved by your previous manager.
Manager changed and you didnt have his number.
How did you know manager changed? Any source of information?
When you got to know your manager has changed, did you try to find out his point of contact. Sure if you were resuming on the date you've mentioned, it would not have been an issue if you personally wish to ask him. But when you got to know you wouldn't be able to resume on committed date did you inform him?
Ideally you should have informed him, the HR in your firm and any other reporting person. You reported to SME because you said you didn't had new manager's number. Appreciate your gesture. But after informing him you could have asked him how should you reach new manager so that you can tell him as well.
Why did you not keep your HR In loop of this? Was this a carefree attitude or a genuine cause is something I wouldn't bang on, but I would say the scope for both are equal. You might have genuinely been stuck up somewhere but the major question is why were reporting manager(s) not informed and why was hr not in the loop.
Please go and meet all your reporting heads and hr together and try to explain the matter again. I won't say that would help you to be back in the firm but if they could reduce the impact of the absconding title on your relieving letter (depends on the genuiness of your case. As I said it was a fault on your part not to inform your manager nor keeping your HR in loop for reference.)
In your FnF ideally there should not be any notice period pay from your end as the service is terminated from their end. If you have any liability (advanced salary or loan or other such outstanding repayments) would be recovered though.
Hope the issue is clearer now
From India, Mumbai
What was your source of information - Manager changed?
Did you take his point of contact from him/her?
When you were granted leave till 31st Oct, you were expected to join from 1st Nov itself. If however you had to extend the leave, the extension of leave is at discretion of your manager. SO ideally it was your manager who had to be reported about this.
Point accepted that you didn't had his number so reported to SME. But my question are:
1. Did you keep your HR in loop for reference?
2. Did you ask your SME or HR to give new manager's mail id or cell number so that you can explain to him the situation?
3. Did you request your SME to extend the information to your manager so that the leave could be granted? (Honestly it should not be your SME doing this thing for you as he's a senior, yet did you attempt this?)
As an HR and having known all different practices that people use to extend their leaves; how do you expect the manager and others to believe you when it was rightfully on your part to inform your manager.
The question still lies - If you could inform your SME, might as well should have informed your Manager as well as HR for reference.
The way out to this problem is only to have a meeting again and discuss the future impact and how could it be resolved. I doubt if they'd take you back as the additional leaves you took were not reported to Manager.
(also it was your duty to find out if manager was informed even if you asked any xyz person in the firm to inform him on your behalf. everyone have their own role to play and one can't blame others if whilst doing their job role they forgot to mention about you.)
About your FnF:
If you don't owe anything to firm (advanced salary / loan or any other such liability) you are not required to pay anything. Paying against notice period - Notice period arises when you resign and if you wish to terminate on immediate grounds you'd have to buy out your notice period.
Please have a talk with the HR and understand why should you be paying notice period.
Wish you luck
From India, Mumbai
Did you take his point of contact from him/her?
When you were granted leave till 31st Oct, you were expected to join from 1st Nov itself. If however you had to extend the leave, the extension of leave is at discretion of your manager. SO ideally it was your manager who had to be reported about this.
Point accepted that you didn't had his number so reported to SME. But my question are:
1. Did you keep your HR in loop for reference?
2. Did you ask your SME or HR to give new manager's mail id or cell number so that you can explain to him the situation?
3. Did you request your SME to extend the information to your manager so that the leave could be granted? (Honestly it should not be your SME doing this thing for you as he's a senior, yet did you attempt this?)
As an HR and having known all different practices that people use to extend their leaves; how do you expect the manager and others to believe you when it was rightfully on your part to inform your manager.
The question still lies - If you could inform your SME, might as well should have informed your Manager as well as HR for reference.
The way out to this problem is only to have a meeting again and discuss the future impact and how could it be resolved. I doubt if they'd take you back as the additional leaves you took were not reported to Manager.
(also it was your duty to find out if manager was informed even if you asked any xyz person in the firm to inform him on your behalf. everyone have their own role to play and one can't blame others if whilst doing their job role they forgot to mention about you.)
About your FnF:
If you don't owe anything to firm (advanced salary / loan or any other such liability) you are not required to pay anything. Paying against notice period - Notice period arises when you resign and if you wish to terminate on immediate grounds you'd have to buy out your notice period.
Please have a talk with the HR and understand why should you be paying notice period.
Wish you luck
From India, Mumbai
Dear Members who responded the querist,
I do respect your feelings. No doubt, the querist is wrong. He has committed misconduct. But I feel that the management is also wrong in taking the action with out giving due respect to law and procedure laid down under it. Also the action taken is disproportionate. The querist overstayed his sanction leave for 18 days. He made an attempt to inform the company through his immediate superior about his overstay of sanction leave.
According to S.O., the querist is liable to lose his lien on his appointment unless he (a) returns within 8 days of the expiry of the leave, and (b) explains to the satisfaction of the employer his inability to return before the expiry of his leave. He is also entitled to be kept on the wait list / badli list.
Termination is unwarranted in this case and that too with out following the law, to my view.
It seems to me, the company has not issued any letter of termination to querist. The querist also not resigned. The querist is in receipt of a letter from his employer stating that he owe F&F settlement money to the company towards notice period. All this things are not appropriate.
Under the circumstances, I strongly feel the draft letter given by Anonymous is very appropriate.
From India, Mumbai
I do respect your feelings. No doubt, the querist is wrong. He has committed misconduct. But I feel that the management is also wrong in taking the action with out giving due respect to law and procedure laid down under it. Also the action taken is disproportionate. The querist overstayed his sanction leave for 18 days. He made an attempt to inform the company through his immediate superior about his overstay of sanction leave.
According to S.O., the querist is liable to lose his lien on his appointment unless he (a) returns within 8 days of the expiry of the leave, and (b) explains to the satisfaction of the employer his inability to return before the expiry of his leave. He is also entitled to be kept on the wait list / badli list.
Termination is unwarranted in this case and that too with out following the law, to my view.
It seems to me, the company has not issued any letter of termination to querist. The querist also not resigned. The querist is in receipt of a letter from his employer stating that he owe F&F settlement money to the company towards notice period. All this things are not appropriate.
Under the circumstances, I strongly feel the draft letter given by Anonymous is very appropriate.
From India, Mumbai
Dear Chill HR,
No company can have a policy to terminate any employee in the manner you said. If you have such policy, it will be illegal ab-initio.
My intention is not to hurt you but to correct you. Please do not take it in other way.
From India, Mumbai
No company can have a policy to terminate any employee in the manner you said. If you have such policy, it will be illegal ab-initio.
My intention is not to hurt you but to correct you. Please do not take it in other way.
From India, Mumbai
i will wait for the querist to respond
i have a strong feeling he was asked to resign and he did
a meeting was held by his hr with him, manager and he was given a chance to explain
after which they decided that his explanation was not satisfactory
in that case i think the terms of SO is also satisfied
From India, Mumbai
i have a strong feeling he was asked to resign and he did
a meeting was held by his hr with him, manager and he was given a chance to explain
after which they decided that his explanation was not satisfactory
in that case i think the terms of SO is also satisfied
From India, Mumbai
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