Yes my query has been answered. I may not need any more replies. This is one of the apt responses I got and the one which I appreciated.
From India, Mumbai
7From India, Mumbai
Hey Peace Promoter,
I might be like too late in marking my point here but still I just wanted to put froth my point as an HR which might help you analyze the problem from a bit different point of view. I went through the whole discussion (majorly) & would honestly like to admit that please understand the point of view being an interviewer here. Being an HR myself, I would like to put forth how your actions might be interpreted (trust me it's nothing to do with religion in most of the companies they are just looking for a good candidate who can make profit & that's it). Hopefully, this angle might help you.
Case 1: If you deny to shake hands, would sound rude (probably because of which you said that you were rejected) & psychologically interpreted as the candidate is being adamant & hence might not adjust in the environment of office. So, probably for the work environment sake one might not pick you up. (This case applies if you do not justify or do not get chance to justify your action)
Case 2: If offered to shake hand from a female interviewer, you acknowledge it either with Namaste or Aadab & then mentioning the reason in short (Nobody has time esp during interview for that long explanation, make it short & simple). It would be a bit difficult to digest as ,like one of the members mentioned it before, usually the muslims are not seen doing this esp in India hence interviewer might be skeptical about it. And on top of that just denying it from female interviewer would be interpreted as chauvism instead of religion. Hence, put forth your point very properly (this would be the turning point as how you might put forth & also, keep in mind that here you're representing your religion also.If the interviewer understands & is unbiased they would definitely judge you on your interview.
Also, most certainly you should be clear of all the things like Namaz time daily & Friday offering etc., you specified in your queries, beforehand only.
Mostly the companies do not fear keeping a good & ardent follower of religion but instead they fear if we give leverage to one others would even come up with one or other thing so you need to be clear that if required or time exceeds you would compensate. So being an HR my problem would be to keep all in one level so that none feels that the other is given more even though I am old employee or may be more experienced etc.
I hope you can see your problem here from this point of view & then look how you should move forward. There are lot suggestions you have got by all intelligent people so you have loads of choices for solution here. Please see it once from this point of view (probably that's what is the significance by putting forth your point here.)
Hope you would have got a job by now where you can follow both your religion together. :)
Best Wishes,
Axita
From India, Chandigarh
I might be like too late in marking my point here but still I just wanted to put froth my point as an HR which might help you analyze the problem from a bit different point of view. I went through the whole discussion (majorly) & would honestly like to admit that please understand the point of view being an interviewer here. Being an HR myself, I would like to put forth how your actions might be interpreted (trust me it's nothing to do with religion in most of the companies they are just looking for a good candidate who can make profit & that's it). Hopefully, this angle might help you.
Case 1: If you deny to shake hands, would sound rude (probably because of which you said that you were rejected) & psychologically interpreted as the candidate is being adamant & hence might not adjust in the environment of office. So, probably for the work environment sake one might not pick you up. (This case applies if you do not justify or do not get chance to justify your action)
Case 2: If offered to shake hand from a female interviewer, you acknowledge it either with Namaste or Aadab & then mentioning the reason in short (Nobody has time esp during interview for that long explanation, make it short & simple). It would be a bit difficult to digest as ,like one of the members mentioned it before, usually the muslims are not seen doing this esp in India hence interviewer might be skeptical about it. And on top of that just denying it from female interviewer would be interpreted as chauvism instead of religion. Hence, put forth your point very properly (this would be the turning point as how you might put forth & also, keep in mind that here you're representing your religion also.If the interviewer understands & is unbiased they would definitely judge you on your interview.
Also, most certainly you should be clear of all the things like Namaz time daily & Friday offering etc., you specified in your queries, beforehand only.
Mostly the companies do not fear keeping a good & ardent follower of religion but instead they fear if we give leverage to one others would even come up with one or other thing so you need to be clear that if required or time exceeds you would compensate. So being an HR my problem would be to keep all in one level so that none feels that the other is given more even though I am old employee or may be more experienced etc.
I hope you can see your problem here from this point of view & then look how you should move forward. There are lot suggestions you have got by all intelligent people so you have loads of choices for solution here. Please see it once from this point of view (probably that's what is the significance by putting forth your point here.)
Hope you would have got a job by now where you can follow both your religion together. :)
Best Wishes,
Axita
From India, Chandigarh
Dear Axita
Thanks for taking your time to positively contribute to this post. I appreciate your posting and I totally understand your view point and this is what I also believe, with respect to HR's viewpoint. Case 1 aptly applies to the situation in which I was rejected because the HR manager specifically told me (indirectly) that I would spoil the culture of the organisation. Case 2 also holds true (that it may get perceived as chauvinism) but Islamically, it has absolutely different reason behind doing it.
This is also true that since majority of Indian Muslims (who work in coprorates) don't abide by these commandments, it is bound to happen I would be treated differently.
I really don't have any problem in getting rejected because I invited it upon myself knowing all consequences of my action. I hold no regrets, no grudges but the only part where I feel sad is when the other person gets so agitated over my action that I am not even given a patient listening to explain my stance.
Yes, thankfully now I am working in an organisation where I am free to practice my religion.
Warm Regards
Peace Promoter
From India, Mumbai
Thanks for taking your time to positively contribute to this post. I appreciate your posting and I totally understand your view point and this is what I also believe, with respect to HR's viewpoint. Case 1 aptly applies to the situation in which I was rejected because the HR manager specifically told me (indirectly) that I would spoil the culture of the organisation. Case 2 also holds true (that it may get perceived as chauvinism) but Islamically, it has absolutely different reason behind doing it.
This is also true that since majority of Indian Muslims (who work in coprorates) don't abide by these commandments, it is bound to happen I would be treated differently.
I really don't have any problem in getting rejected because I invited it upon myself knowing all consequences of my action. I hold no regrets, no grudges but the only part where I feel sad is when the other person gets so agitated over my action that I am not even given a patient listening to explain my stance.
Yes, thankfully now I am working in an organisation where I am free to practice my religion.
Warm Regards
Peace Promoter
From India, Mumbai
Dear friends,
the religious faith is different from the earning of bread. There is not linked with organisational practices. In manufacturing unit full 365 days are must to work. There is leisure or specified time for other activities even for natural calls. The time is uniformly fixed for all employees ir respect of gender or religion or proximity to the office.
I my view and experience only labour laws or organisational rules should follow by all the respective employees uniformly. Privileges and practices of organisation dependence upon the nature of the work.
There should be a point to make such things as a matter.
Keeping view of the safety and security the industrial laws were prepared and implemented in the country but not on keeping the gender, religion or other political purposes.
In my carrier i thought that i have solved some ir problems with using common sense. I my view common sense means which help the judgement at large.
I am happy that i have got a nice plot form to exchange views and emotions in a peaceful manner.
As the happy day for all citehr family of the new year 2013 i wish the all to have the bright future with health and wealth
From India, Visakhapatnam
the religious faith is different from the earning of bread. There is not linked with organisational practices. In manufacturing unit full 365 days are must to work. There is leisure or specified time for other activities even for natural calls. The time is uniformly fixed for all employees ir respect of gender or religion or proximity to the office.
I my view and experience only labour laws or organisational rules should follow by all the respective employees uniformly. Privileges and practices of organisation dependence upon the nature of the work.
There should be a point to make such things as a matter.
Keeping view of the safety and security the industrial laws were prepared and implemented in the country but not on keeping the gender, religion or other political purposes.
In my carrier i thought that i have solved some ir problems with using common sense. I my view common sense means which help the judgement at large.
I am happy that i have got a nice plot form to exchange views and emotions in a peaceful manner.
As the happy day for all citehr family of the new year 2013 i wish the all to have the bright future with health and wealth
From India, Visakhapatnam
For most the people and most of the organisations, Yes.
Yes, this is also true and this actually became one of the reason for massive industrial violence in one of the Honda factories in Gurgaon and then recently Maruti in Manesar
Factories Act 1948 does have certain restrictions when employing female employees
From India, Mumbai
Yes, this is also true and this actually became one of the reason for massive industrial violence in one of the Honda factories in Gurgaon and then recently Maruti in Manesar
Factories Act 1948 does have certain restrictions when employing female employees
From India, Mumbai
Hi,
I think any person irrespective of relegion can work any company provided it does not impact on the business. Flexibility and respect to others is the core of any human race.
As per the Darwin's theory that reces survive that change. There is logic behond every quote told in relegious books, but does not mean that they are logical today.
Hence firts decide what you want fom your life. If relegion quotes cited years back, takes you to the progress and excels your life follow the same. Otherwise, follow the logic which excels you in life.
Regards,
Vinod Bidwaik
From India, Pune
I think any person irrespective of relegion can work any company provided it does not impact on the business. Flexibility and respect to others is the core of any human race.
As per the Darwin's theory that reces survive that change. There is logic behond every quote told in relegious books, but does not mean that they are logical today.
Hence firts decide what you want fom your life. If relegion quotes cited years back, takes you to the progress and excels your life follow the same. Otherwise, follow the logic which excels you in life.
Regards,
Vinod Bidwaik
From India, Pune
3 points
1. Darwin's theory of evolution (with respect to evolution homo sapiens) is still a theory and has been critically viewed time and again by people within the scientific community (Dissent From Darwin Blog)
2. To me, my religious book is as logical as it was in its inception and would remain so till the end of time and this is the uniqueness and beauty of it. (yet applicability of certain text me be circumstantial and those circumstances may not be present today and hence can't be applied till those circumstances get recreated)
3. Yes, practical observance of my faith has given me a value to my life and defined my role in this world and has actually helped me to progress and excel in my life. to me, its absolutely logical and rational and i would continue following them. yet, i am not patronizing anyone to accept my views. People have their own views and I have mine.
From India, Mumbai
1. Darwin's theory of evolution (with respect to evolution homo sapiens) is still a theory and has been critically viewed time and again by people within the scientific community (Dissent From Darwin Blog)
2. To me, my religious book is as logical as it was in its inception and would remain so till the end of time and this is the uniqueness and beauty of it. (yet applicability of certain text me be circumstantial and those circumstances may not be present today and hence can't be applied till those circumstances get recreated)
3. Yes, practical observance of my faith has given me a value to my life and defined my role in this world and has actually helped me to progress and excel in my life. to me, its absolutely logical and rational and i would continue following them. yet, i am not patronizing anyone to accept my views. People have their own views and I have mine.
From India, Mumbai
not only ISLAM...any other religion would also say samething..Let us Keep religion out of work..Instead think and discuss how to work better and make our country a developed nation.
From India, Chennai
From India, Chennai
Dear Friends Peace Promoter,
I am very new to CiteHR and am surprised you are a member since 2010. I am not sure if you are really a Muslim or just posing as one. But please don't take it too seriously as what I am going to say may hurt your sentiments. The conditions to be a real muslim laid by you above are impractical and may be just of academic nature or may be applicable on those whose Job is just to Serve Allah. Your opening para explaining the definition of Muslim is unwarranted as dear Muslims are only of one type and means he who worship Allah & Kuran is a Muslim. There is nothing like nonpracticing or practicing Muslim. There is nothing like liberated or backword Muslim.
I can tell you most of the companies will not let you have break of 4 times a day for Namaz and Lunch Even if some allows they too can't guarantee the same for all days. There may be some meetings with seniors and management and you can't just getup and tell yr Boss or MD that now it's prayer time and am going for prayers so wait for 30 minutes and shall resume meeting.
You says In India it's very difficult to find a neat and clean place in India it means either you are not from India or may be have always stayed at home till date. The biggest muslim countries India, Pakistan, Bangla Desh and many others are same in cleanliness.
To make it short,although the questions raised by you to be a real Muslim or Not are just very Much theoretical and there is no real substance. I feel you are quite intelligent and know what you are doing and writing.I can assure, you can not work in HR / Sales/ Dispatch or any other department in Private Sector. In public Sector no body will let you have 3 + 1 beak a day. You are not fit to be a business man in India at least as business people have to charge profit and pay interest on loans and that will again be against your faith. You are not even fit to be a Doctor as he too have to lie to patients and say yes you will ge recovered in few weeks although Doctor knows clearly that patient is going to die soon.
Dear after giving a serious thought to all the problems which one face in Job, I feel the best option to manage your true faith as per the rules laid by religion is to find a work in some Muslim charity organisation ot at some Mosque. May be there you can have your faith intact .
So please just take my words lightly and see if you wish to work in a company as a regular employee and grow. or just join some religious organisation and live as per the tenets of Islam.
From India, Delhi
I am very new to CiteHR and am surprised you are a member since 2010. I am not sure if you are really a Muslim or just posing as one. But please don't take it too seriously as what I am going to say may hurt your sentiments. The conditions to be a real muslim laid by you above are impractical and may be just of academic nature or may be applicable on those whose Job is just to Serve Allah. Your opening para explaining the definition of Muslim is unwarranted as dear Muslims are only of one type and means he who worship Allah & Kuran is a Muslim. There is nothing like nonpracticing or practicing Muslim. There is nothing like liberated or backword Muslim.
I can tell you most of the companies will not let you have break of 4 times a day for Namaz and Lunch Even if some allows they too can't guarantee the same for all days. There may be some meetings with seniors and management and you can't just getup and tell yr Boss or MD that now it's prayer time and am going for prayers so wait for 30 minutes and shall resume meeting.
You says In India it's very difficult to find a neat and clean place in India it means either you are not from India or may be have always stayed at home till date. The biggest muslim countries India, Pakistan, Bangla Desh and many others are same in cleanliness.
To make it short,although the questions raised by you to be a real Muslim or Not are just very Much theoretical and there is no real substance. I feel you are quite intelligent and know what you are doing and writing.I can assure, you can not work in HR / Sales/ Dispatch or any other department in Private Sector. In public Sector no body will let you have 3 + 1 beak a day. You are not fit to be a business man in India at least as business people have to charge profit and pay interest on loans and that will again be against your faith. You are not even fit to be a Doctor as he too have to lie to patients and say yes you will ge recovered in few weeks although Doctor knows clearly that patient is going to die soon.
Dear after giving a serious thought to all the problems which one face in Job, I feel the best option to manage your true faith as per the rules laid by religion is to find a work in some Muslim charity organisation ot at some Mosque. May be there you can have your faith intact .
So please just take my words lightly and see if you wish to work in a company as a regular employee and grow. or just join some religious organisation and live as per the tenets of Islam.
From India, Delhi
Thanks for your post
I am a Muslim and there's no reason for me to pose as one.
Your definition is Muslim is skewed, please don't write something which you don't know. No Muslim in this world worships Quran (you can't even spell it correctly). Even if would have known a basic of Arabic grammar, you wouldn't have written what you wrote
Amongst all the responses I received, your post is so ill mannered and lacks even basic wisdom that it deserves no response. Let you remain happy with your knowledge of Islam and Muslims. You responded in such a way as if I abused your parents. I fail to understand what provoked you.
For your kind information, I have already working as Assistant Professor in a Central University in New Delhi with abiding all what I wrote.
Peace !
From India, Mumbai
I am a Muslim and there's no reason for me to pose as one.
Your definition is Muslim is skewed, please don't write something which you don't know. No Muslim in this world worships Quran (you can't even spell it correctly). Even if would have known a basic of Arabic grammar, you wouldn't have written what you wrote
Amongst all the responses I received, your post is so ill mannered and lacks even basic wisdom that it deserves no response. Let you remain happy with your knowledge of Islam and Muslims. You responded in such a way as if I abused your parents. I fail to understand what provoked you.
For your kind information, I have already working as Assistant Professor in a Central University in New Delhi with abiding all what I wrote.
Peace !
From India, Mumbai
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