Dear Nidhi
There are two issues
1. The legality and hius right
2. Humane side of this issue
I responded only from legal aspect. I still hold the view that if an emplyee refuses(and if he is not a workman under ID Act), Indian Contrat act is applicable I am very sure that change of salary is a change in the terms and if he does not accept, contract ceases.
From the humane side of it, there had been lot of postings here. We can talk to him, try to convince him, and so on and so forth. But, allowing a person to say no to his increment and trying pacify him will indicate that your appraisal system is not strong. If your appraisal system is strong, why worry? Tell him if he wants to continue he can otherwise he can take a decision.
I am also aware that some HR Executives criticise their own Appraisal System and say" we have hopless appraisal system" If he has made any such comment, then he can not talk to this employee assertively.
As HR people we need to communicate Company's policies in no uncertain terms to the employees.
I would imagine a procees like this would have been followed in this case:
1. Call for annual appraisal from Concerned Managers
2. Reviewed by HODs
3. Appraisal perused and submitted to a Committee or the CEO
4. He or the Committe would have applied their mind
5 Final decision taken
Few are unhappy always and generally if the feedback has been good across, why bother about one employee.
We must get on to our business rather than worrying too much about one employee unless it is proved that some injustice has been done to him.
Sivasankaran
From India, Chennai
366There are two issues
1. The legality and hius right
2. Humane side of this issue
I responded only from legal aspect. I still hold the view that if an emplyee refuses(and if he is not a workman under ID Act), Indian Contrat act is applicable I am very sure that change of salary is a change in the terms and if he does not accept, contract ceases.
From the humane side of it, there had been lot of postings here. We can talk to him, try to convince him, and so on and so forth. But, allowing a person to say no to his increment and trying pacify him will indicate that your appraisal system is not strong. If your appraisal system is strong, why worry? Tell him if he wants to continue he can otherwise he can take a decision.
I am also aware that some HR Executives criticise their own Appraisal System and say" we have hopless appraisal system" If he has made any such comment, then he can not talk to this employee assertively.
As HR people we need to communicate Company's policies in no uncertain terms to the employees.
I would imagine a procees like this would have been followed in this case:
1. Call for annual appraisal from Concerned Managers
2. Reviewed by HODs
3. Appraisal perused and submitted to a Committee or the CEO
4. He or the Committe would have applied their mind
5 Final decision taken
Few are unhappy always and generally if the feedback has been good across, why bother about one employee.
We must get on to our business rather than worrying too much about one employee unless it is proved that some injustice has been done to him.
Sivasankaran
From India, Chennai
Yes a employee can reject his/her salary increment provided due to his/her dissatisfaction to the increment of salary might require any change or some personal issue to their senior may be present
From India, Delhi
From India, Delhi
Dear Aecrajesh,
Refusal to accept either the salary or increment letter or both reflects a protest as well as misconduct amounting to insubordination and can be dealt with accordingly, in case the HR there finds that the increment in question is well justified. In any case the HR has to counsel him of all the proscons of the case and in case he sticks to his guns, a disciplinary action , as per rules would be warranted.
Regards
S.K.Johri
From India, Delhi
Refusal to accept either the salary or increment letter or both reflects a protest as well as misconduct amounting to insubordination and can be dealt with accordingly, in case the HR there finds that the increment in question is well justified. In any case the HR has to counsel him of all the proscons of the case and in case he sticks to his guns, a disciplinary action , as per rules would be warranted.
Regards
S.K.Johri
From India, Delhi
sivansankaran,
hold your horses.
i have served in HR with Zamil group, in middle east wherein millions of Indians/ filipinos/ pakistanis etc are hired on contract not "indefinite employment"
1st question: have you seen the employment letter of the said employee.
2nd question: lets assume a hypothetical case for your understanding. an employee is hired on specific benefits. to make it easier for you lets take it as 1 year renewable contract (normally workers are engaged on 2-6 year contracts) .. at the end of the year, the company may or may not offer a raise. if both the parties do not renew the contract the employee returns to home country.
now lets take the 2nd case, the person is working on a 2 -6 year contract..
salary may/ may not be increased and the worker will continue working...
till the time one of the parties exclusively opts out of the contract.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lets take a scenario on retainership now in indian context.
we engage a person on X benefits and lets say we foresee the relationship to last for 2 years.
there is no compulsion to hike fees after a year unless we have specified conditions. (mere wishful thinking or cost of living indexation doesnt suffice)
if at any point one party feels the contract is unfair, they can opt out (exit clauses can be specified including notice period etc)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now lets take the original question:
why should an employee be asked to leave if he doesnt find the hike acceptable ?
From India, Delhi
hold your horses.
i have served in HR with Zamil group, in middle east wherein millions of Indians/ filipinos/ pakistanis etc are hired on contract not "indefinite employment"
1st question: have you seen the employment letter of the said employee.
2nd question: lets assume a hypothetical case for your understanding. an employee is hired on specific benefits. to make it easier for you lets take it as 1 year renewable contract (normally workers are engaged on 2-6 year contracts) .. at the end of the year, the company may or may not offer a raise. if both the parties do not renew the contract the employee returns to home country.
now lets take the 2nd case, the person is working on a 2 -6 year contract..
salary may/ may not be increased and the worker will continue working...
till the time one of the parties exclusively opts out of the contract.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lets take a scenario on retainership now in indian context.
we engage a person on X benefits and lets say we foresee the relationship to last for 2 years.
there is no compulsion to hike fees after a year unless we have specified conditions. (mere wishful thinking or cost of living indexation doesnt suffice)
if at any point one party feels the contract is unfair, they can opt out (exit clauses can be specified including notice period etc)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now lets take the original question:
why should an employee be asked to leave if he doesnt find the hike acceptable ?
From India, Delhi
Mr Rana
I never said the Employee must be asked to quit.
The question was a legal one. The person raised the question as to" whether an employee can reject the increase?"
I am visualising a typical Indian situation . Generally, letters are issued for a permanent employement and not on 2 year or 5 year contracts. Let us talk about such a situation
There is no obligation on the part of the employer to raise the salary unless there is a time scale specified or clause indicating that there will be revision every six months or every year.
Generally there are two types of increases inI ndian context(I am not talking about unionised category here)
1. General revision to cope with market conditions
2. Performance review and increase thereafter
Latest trend is to combine both and make adjustments every year.
My only argument is when an organisation issues a letter revising the salary, it amounts to change in contractual terms ( Similar to what you are referring to in Middle east where the contracts are one year)
When an employee rejects the reveised conditions, he rejects the offer.
In my opinion, when one party to the contract rejects an offer, contract ceases( it is not only my opinion..it is just a simple legalposition)
Therafter we need to examine the facts through behaviour
1. Employee rejects the increase but keeps silent when the new salary is credited
to his account
2. Employee rejects the increase and also returns the money given to him to the
Company
In nthe former situation, we can deduce that the employee expressed his grievance but has accepted the revised terms by accepting the revised salary.
In the later, it is an indication that he has rejected the revised terms completely and if he has rejected the terms, can he continue?You yourself have mentioned that in middle east if the revised terms are not acceptable, the employee returns. Just because there is no mention about years, it does not mean there is no such contract in Indian context
As regards seeing the appointment letter, we just give our advices and opinions based on the facts given here. If we need to give our final legal opinion, then we need to examine all the documents . This forum is not meant for free legal consultation . This a forum to express our views. It is for the person concerned to take it or not to take it.
Thanks for reading my views and expressing your views
Sivasankaran
From India, Chennai
I never said the Employee must be asked to quit.
The question was a legal one. The person raised the question as to" whether an employee can reject the increase?"
I am visualising a typical Indian situation . Generally, letters are issued for a permanent employement and not on 2 year or 5 year contracts. Let us talk about such a situation
There is no obligation on the part of the employer to raise the salary unless there is a time scale specified or clause indicating that there will be revision every six months or every year.
Generally there are two types of increases inI ndian context(I am not talking about unionised category here)
1. General revision to cope with market conditions
2. Performance review and increase thereafter
Latest trend is to combine both and make adjustments every year.
My only argument is when an organisation issues a letter revising the salary, it amounts to change in contractual terms ( Similar to what you are referring to in Middle east where the contracts are one year)
When an employee rejects the reveised conditions, he rejects the offer.
In my opinion, when one party to the contract rejects an offer, contract ceases( it is not only my opinion..it is just a simple legalposition)
Therafter we need to examine the facts through behaviour
1. Employee rejects the increase but keeps silent when the new salary is credited
to his account
2. Employee rejects the increase and also returns the money given to him to the
Company
In nthe former situation, we can deduce that the employee expressed his grievance but has accepted the revised terms by accepting the revised salary.
In the later, it is an indication that he has rejected the revised terms completely and if he has rejected the terms, can he continue?You yourself have mentioned that in middle east if the revised terms are not acceptable, the employee returns. Just because there is no mention about years, it does not mean there is no such contract in Indian context
As regards seeing the appointment letter, we just give our advices and opinions based on the facts given here. If we need to give our final legal opinion, then we need to examine all the documents . This forum is not meant for free legal consultation . This a forum to express our views. It is for the person concerned to take it or not to take it.
Thanks for reading my views and expressing your views
Sivasankaran
From India, Chennai
dearest "sivasankaran"
heard about active listening....
take several deep breaths, think of all possible scenarios and then write your perspective:
if you had done this your post would have been truly holistic and covered each and every single aspect.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i outlined 3 possible scenarios on contract employment in middle east, purely for learning in a different context.
kindly read them once again and ask questions to increase your understanding but remember the golden rule "put forward your point but do not argue"
why does the person return from abroad back to his home country ?
ans: person returns because his stay there is only for work and that is sponsored by a specific employee, if either the employee/ employer doesnt renew the contract, the employee must return to his home country asap as he is not a citizen of that country..
there is a concept of "azad" visa .. ie there are people who sponsor ur work permit and then allow you to work for someone else in return for money...
i highlighted different tenures, people work there on different positions.. length of a contract determine when they go home.
some people go home once in 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 2 year, 6-7 years upwards.
different skills come at different price tags/ bargaining power (this comes under global equity in compensation and benefits)
normally work contracts are 1 page, everything is clearly outlined ...
ideally salaries are not meant to be increased if workforce is on fixed duration contracts.
but the dichotomy comes because these countries have their own workforce from local population and these guys work on indefinite employment (there are several reputed companies there which do not have a retirement age even now) too and so the waters flow over...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lets move on to the indian scenario now, you did not highlight all possible scenarios:
1. Blue collar workers:
first comes city, how much manpower pool/ employment prospects are there..
here the type of sector/ industry is imp.
next size of company
financials of the company
life cycle stage of the brand/ company
whether they export or not (social compliance audits)
the person may or may not be on a fixed salary
he person may or may not be on the rolls of the company.
some of them may be on contractor rolls, by the word contractor i mean track it down to 6 levels of outsourcing
there are several workers who work from home/ part time and are not covered by contractors also (refer to ETI for more info)
we can increase the gamut if we include people employed in govt/ semi govt / central public sector enterprises/ village panchayats etc.
lets take bargaining, is the price dictated by the owner/ clients/ group of workers/ union led/ industry wide/ govt/ etc..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
am leaving it here due to paucity of time..
replicate the exercise for white collar staff..
next see how salaries are effected by demographic/ psychographic/ country's political situation/ technology/ global equity/ internal equity etc...
what are the purpose of various allowances/ how are they calculated/ what are the lacunae in the process
lots of people use concept of minimum wage but not many may have expereinced "living wage" ?
we use a variable known as "hot skills bonus" to cater to varying cost of skills.
imagine today its 20k pm in a salary breakup and in 2 years it becomes zero
reputed companies have "employee assistance program" too
what happens if one company is employing "job grading" and another is using "hay point factor" as a method of job evaluation
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"siva sankaran" if you take a look at the above and think of all possible factors, you will not be in a hurry to advise ...
lol
warm regards
From India, Delhi
heard about active listening....
take several deep breaths, think of all possible scenarios and then write your perspective:
if you had done this your post would have been truly holistic and covered each and every single aspect.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i outlined 3 possible scenarios on contract employment in middle east, purely for learning in a different context.
kindly read them once again and ask questions to increase your understanding but remember the golden rule "put forward your point but do not argue"
why does the person return from abroad back to his home country ?
ans: person returns because his stay there is only for work and that is sponsored by a specific employee, if either the employee/ employer doesnt renew the contract, the employee must return to his home country asap as he is not a citizen of that country..
there is a concept of "azad" visa .. ie there are people who sponsor ur work permit and then allow you to work for someone else in return for money...
i highlighted different tenures, people work there on different positions.. length of a contract determine when they go home.
some people go home once in 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 2 year, 6-7 years upwards.
different skills come at different price tags/ bargaining power (this comes under global equity in compensation and benefits)
normally work contracts are 1 page, everything is clearly outlined ...
ideally salaries are not meant to be increased if workforce is on fixed duration contracts.
but the dichotomy comes because these countries have their own workforce from local population and these guys work on indefinite employment (there are several reputed companies there which do not have a retirement age even now) too and so the waters flow over...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lets move on to the indian scenario now, you did not highlight all possible scenarios:
1. Blue collar workers:
first comes city, how much manpower pool/ employment prospects are there..
here the type of sector/ industry is imp.
next size of company
financials of the company
life cycle stage of the brand/ company
whether they export or not (social compliance audits)
the person may or may not be on a fixed salary
he person may or may not be on the rolls of the company.
some of them may be on contractor rolls, by the word contractor i mean track it down to 6 levels of outsourcing
there are several workers who work from home/ part time and are not covered by contractors also (refer to ETI for more info)
we can increase the gamut if we include people employed in govt/ semi govt / central public sector enterprises/ village panchayats etc.
lets take bargaining, is the price dictated by the owner/ clients/ group of workers/ union led/ industry wide/ govt/ etc..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
am leaving it here due to paucity of time..
replicate the exercise for white collar staff..
next see how salaries are effected by demographic/ psychographic/ country's political situation/ technology/ global equity/ internal equity etc...
what are the purpose of various allowances/ how are they calculated/ what are the lacunae in the process
lots of people use concept of minimum wage but not many may have expereinced "living wage" ?
we use a variable known as "hot skills bonus" to cater to varying cost of skills.
imagine today its 20k pm in a salary breakup and in 2 years it becomes zero
reputed companies have "employee assistance program" too
what happens if one company is employing "job grading" and another is using "hay point factor" as a method of job evaluation
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"siva sankaran" if you take a look at the above and think of all possible factors, you will not be in a hurry to advise ...
lol
warm regards
From India, Delhi
Dear Mr Rana
I answered and expressed my view on a simple question and never wanted any arguments
I was answering a legal question. I would stop with that
I do not understand the logic of people coming back from Middle East in this discussion
Once again thanks for reading my views and i close any further discussion with me on this subject
Sivasankaran
From India, Chennai
I answered and expressed my view on a simple question and never wanted any arguments
I was answering a legal question. I would stop with that
I do not understand the logic of people coming back from Middle East in this discussion
Once again thanks for reading my views and i close any further discussion with me on this subject
Sivasankaran
From India, Chennai
my dear fellow colleague "sivasankaran "
kindly read my 2 posts and your answers too.
this will answer your question " I do not understand the logic of people coming back from Middle East in this discussio"
i had the opportunity of working/ learning with fine people (i owe almost all my knowledge to my ex bosses/ teachers)...
you are welcome to interact with me anytime/ always, i will be glad to share knowledge...
(ps: i was a topper in my college days and used to teach my fellow classmates for free)
From India, Delhi
kindly read my 2 posts and your answers too.
this will answer your question " I do not understand the logic of people coming back from Middle East in this discussio"
i had the opportunity of working/ learning with fine people (i owe almost all my knowledge to my ex bosses/ teachers)...
you are welcome to interact with me anytime/ always, i will be glad to share knowledge...
(ps: i was a topper in my college days and used to teach my fellow classmates for free)
From India, Delhi
Hi,
This has nothing to do with outstanding performance in studies. Here is the question of providing an amicable and practical solution which can be offered on the basis of experience and maturity. By this I do not want to cast any aspersion on my friend but what I have said is the statement of fact.
It is once again reiterated that refusal to accept the salary alongwith the increment constitutes a misconduct for which the employee concerned be prepared to face. In case of a grievance, as it seems to be , the valid course of action would be to follow the prescribed procedure for the purpose and in case of there being no procedure he should take up the case with authorities concerned.
Regards
S.K.Johri
From India, Delhi
This has nothing to do with outstanding performance in studies. Here is the question of providing an amicable and practical solution which can be offered on the basis of experience and maturity. By this I do not want to cast any aspersion on my friend but what I have said is the statement of fact.
It is once again reiterated that refusal to accept the salary alongwith the increment constitutes a misconduct for which the employee concerned be prepared to face. In case of a grievance, as it seems to be , the valid course of action would be to follow the prescribed procedure for the purpose and in case of there being no procedure he should take up the case with authorities concerned.
Regards
S.K.Johri
From India, Delhi
mr johri,
you made a statement "This has nothing to do with outstanding performance in studies."
answer: please look all around yourself. everywhere people are running after scores/courses/ colleges/ companies/ salaries/ titles and so on...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now lets us take your advice:
option no 1: as mr johri says..
option no 2: in a leading firm, an employee is referred for employee assistance program
option no 3: in a leading firm, wherein merit increase doesnt match Cost of living indexation, employee needs training to enhance performance.
option no 4: in a small concern, CEO or HOD intervenes and gives a higher increase. it can be on the record and it can be off the record.
option no 5: in case of a blue collar worker, where jobs are easy to find, it will lead to immediate attrition.
option no 6: in case of blue collar worker, if the same is detected by a social compliance auditor or buyer, it will lead to serious issue of deeper examination of practices within the company possibly leading to cancellation of orders/ dismissal of staff..
option no 7: in case of a blue collar worker wherein skillset is not easily replaceable, a higher increase may be sanctioned
option no 8: in case of an employee with long innings/ ethical conduct/ superlative performance, even if an employee is non promotable even then he will be paid "1-2 levels" higher than the salary specified for the band. and this is not an exception. this is a normal practise..
check the "headers" in the inputs required for Hay salary survey... it checks for number of years...
option no 9: continuation of 8, organisation creates a new position to justify higher salary though after job evaluation, there is little difference in scores/ job content.
the above list is simply a starter....
there are scores of possible situation/ answers...
From India, Delhi
you made a statement "This has nothing to do with outstanding performance in studies."
answer: please look all around yourself. everywhere people are running after scores/courses/ colleges/ companies/ salaries/ titles and so on...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now lets us take your advice:
option no 1: as mr johri says..
option no 2: in a leading firm, an employee is referred for employee assistance program
option no 3: in a leading firm, wherein merit increase doesnt match Cost of living indexation, employee needs training to enhance performance.
option no 4: in a small concern, CEO or HOD intervenes and gives a higher increase. it can be on the record and it can be off the record.
option no 5: in case of a blue collar worker, where jobs are easy to find, it will lead to immediate attrition.
option no 6: in case of blue collar worker, if the same is detected by a social compliance auditor or buyer, it will lead to serious issue of deeper examination of practices within the company possibly leading to cancellation of orders/ dismissal of staff..
option no 7: in case of a blue collar worker wherein skillset is not easily replaceable, a higher increase may be sanctioned
option no 8: in case of an employee with long innings/ ethical conduct/ superlative performance, even if an employee is non promotable even then he will be paid "1-2 levels" higher than the salary specified for the band. and this is not an exception. this is a normal practise..
check the "headers" in the inputs required for Hay salary survey... it checks for number of years...
option no 9: continuation of 8, organisation creates a new position to justify higher salary though after job evaluation, there is little difference in scores/ job content.
the above list is simply a starter....
there are scores of possible situation/ answers...
From India, Delhi
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