I have read the posts. I agree that it is a good practice to provide PPE free of cost. However, i am not clear where in law does it say you can not recover the cost of the same from the employee
From India, Mumbai
2358From India, Mumbai
Dear Banerjee,
The law stipulates provision of safety/protective clothings as also helmets, safety boots safety belts. An employee may not like to pay for the same, but the employer is under obligation to provide the same. It is by nature of the management trying to meet the statutory obligation by providing the same free of cos You may not find it codified but will appreciate the position.
s.k.johri
From India, Delhi
The law stipulates provision of safety/protective clothings as also helmets, safety boots safety belts. An employee may not like to pay for the same, but the employer is under obligation to provide the same. It is by nature of the management trying to meet the statutory obligation by providing the same free of cos You may not find it codified but will appreciate the position.
s.k.johri
From India, Delhi
Issue of uniform to employees is common in industries. It will be for uniformity and also to the safety of employees. In case of cloth soiled due to very nature of their work/ duties in factories.
Issue of shoes are for the safety of foot in case of any untoward incident to protect injury to foot in work.
Normally it will be supplied by the co. once in a year or two based on the nature of work on free of cost. But some persons/employees, without taking responsibility, they are not wearing, loosing uniform and shoes by their negligence, and not wearing shoes and uniform in due course of time.
Therefore, to have seriousness, some companies are making them as a part of the partner to feel ownership of uniform, a token/nominal amount being deducted from them.
That is the reason for their contribution. But not otherwise. one should appreciate this aspect.
D.Gurumurthy
From India, Hyderabad
Issue of shoes are for the safety of foot in case of any untoward incident to protect injury to foot in work.
Normally it will be supplied by the co. once in a year or two based on the nature of work on free of cost. But some persons/employees, without taking responsibility, they are not wearing, loosing uniform and shoes by their negligence, and not wearing shoes and uniform in due course of time.
Therefore, to have seriousness, some companies are making them as a part of the partner to feel ownership of uniform, a token/nominal amount being deducted from them.
That is the reason for their contribution. But not otherwise. one should appreciate this aspect.
D.Gurumurthy
From India, Hyderabad
Though it is a requirement of the employment that the employee follow certain rules, or use certain tools, it is not necessary that the employer pays for it. It can be a clearly stated term of employment that you get this item at your cost or that you will be charged for it.
Eg today, every employer wants employees to have a cell phone, but employees are required to buy and pay for it on their own. Sales Rep are required to wear ties as a part of the uniform, but the company does not pay for it. So, unless stated specifically, nothing legally requires the employer to pay for the shoes.
For example, when company specifies that MR need to travel on bikes, and that all bike users need to use helmets, do they have to,pay for the helmet or can they ask for the employee to buy his own.
Only link I see here is the sec 7A stipulation of maintaining a safe environment. But again, that would really mean following safety regulations, safety systems on machines, no fumes, etc but not necessarily to provide free shoes. Any law or decision that links this point ? I wish to understand for an achemedic interest since I am sure someone will at some time argue on that line.
From India, Mumbai
Eg today, every employer wants employees to have a cell phone, but employees are required to buy and pay for it on their own. Sales Rep are required to wear ties as a part of the uniform, but the company does not pay for it. So, unless stated specifically, nothing legally requires the employer to pay for the shoes.
For example, when company specifies that MR need to travel on bikes, and that all bike users need to use helmets, do they have to,pay for the helmet or can they ask for the employee to buy his own.
Only link I see here is the sec 7A stipulation of maintaining a safe environment. But again, that would really mean following safety regulations, safety systems on machines, no fumes, etc but not necessarily to provide free shoes. Any law or decision that links this point ? I wish to understand for an achemedic interest since I am sure someone will at some time argue on that line.
From India, Mumbai
It is interesting to see the discussion going in a direction that seeks to recover the cost of the PPE's from the employees.
It is being argued that although the Law does ask the employer to provide it, nowhere it says that the employer can not recover the cost.
There can be arguments for the sake of arguments. In Hindi they are called "Tarka", "Vitarka" and "Kutarka". It is the last one that one should guard against. Kutarka or 'bad arguments'goes like this :
A glass of water is half full.
It means, it is half empty.
Therefore, half empty means half full.
So 'empty' is equal to 'full' !!!
I have only two points to make with respect to the discussion going on.
The first is :
The Law requires the employer to provide several things for the safety and welfare of the employees.
For example; under the Factories Act, they range from providing cool drinking water, washing facilities, to canteen, creche, First Aid Box, Ambulance, Welare officer etc etc.
Since nowhere does it say that the employer should not recover the costs from employees; should an employer RECOVER PRO RATA COST FROM EMPLOYEES the expenses in providing these, such as cost of running the Creche, the salary of Welfare Officer etc etc ?? Cost of running the canteen, and other facilities ??
If this is so; then no employee will get any salary !!
In any case, the Labour cost components come to 8-12% of the total production cost. If all such EXPENSES for complying with the Laws and running the business are recovered from employees; there would not be any need to pay any salary.
I think this seems to be the attitude of companies which are actually anti-social elements incorporated to hoodwink the Law. These are the kind of companies who will think of even breaking down the MINIMUM WAGES into several components with MINISCULE BASIC PAY, so that they pay less PF and other statutory obligations. Who are they trying to fool ???
My second point is :
Before one thinks of RECOVERING WHATEVER AMOUNT one thinks fit, from the salary of employees;
I suggest one should thoroughly study the PAYMENT OF WAGES ACT,1936.
About the problem of employees losing their PPE's again and again; there is a procedure for taking DISCIPLINARY ACTION for such neglegience.
When such companies can merrily TERMINATE employees at will; why can not they take Disciplinary Actions ??
It seems they are MORE INTERESTED in recovering money from ill-paid employees.
Also, why do these companies hesitate in IMPOSING FINES, instead of recovering money ??
The simple reason is, FINES have to be shown in the specified registers, which has to be shown to Labour Authorities and they will definitely seek justifications.
Moreover, the FINES can not be kept by the Employers, but have to be given to Labour Welfare Fund of the concerned state.
So the companies feel, it is better to enjoy the recovery from employees.
It is unfortunate that employees, esp. workmen, are too scared to knock at the doors of Labour Court against such ILLEGAL RECOVERIES.
More appalling is the fact that HRs either due to ignorance of Laws or to get favours from the Management, are a willing party to such acts.
From India, Delhi
It is being argued that although the Law does ask the employer to provide it, nowhere it says that the employer can not recover the cost.
There can be arguments for the sake of arguments. In Hindi they are called "Tarka", "Vitarka" and "Kutarka". It is the last one that one should guard against. Kutarka or 'bad arguments'goes like this :
A glass of water is half full.
It means, it is half empty.
Therefore, half empty means half full.
So 'empty' is equal to 'full' !!!
I have only two points to make with respect to the discussion going on.
The first is :
The Law requires the employer to provide several things for the safety and welfare of the employees.
For example; under the Factories Act, they range from providing cool drinking water, washing facilities, to canteen, creche, First Aid Box, Ambulance, Welare officer etc etc.
Since nowhere does it say that the employer should not recover the costs from employees; should an employer RECOVER PRO RATA COST FROM EMPLOYEES the expenses in providing these, such as cost of running the Creche, the salary of Welfare Officer etc etc ?? Cost of running the canteen, and other facilities ??
If this is so; then no employee will get any salary !!
In any case, the Labour cost components come to 8-12% of the total production cost. If all such EXPENSES for complying with the Laws and running the business are recovered from employees; there would not be any need to pay any salary.
I think this seems to be the attitude of companies which are actually anti-social elements incorporated to hoodwink the Law. These are the kind of companies who will think of even breaking down the MINIMUM WAGES into several components with MINISCULE BASIC PAY, so that they pay less PF and other statutory obligations. Who are they trying to fool ???
My second point is :
Before one thinks of RECOVERING WHATEVER AMOUNT one thinks fit, from the salary of employees;
I suggest one should thoroughly study the PAYMENT OF WAGES ACT,1936.
About the problem of employees losing their PPE's again and again; there is a procedure for taking DISCIPLINARY ACTION for such neglegience.
When such companies can merrily TERMINATE employees at will; why can not they take Disciplinary Actions ??
It seems they are MORE INTERESTED in recovering money from ill-paid employees.
Also, why do these companies hesitate in IMPOSING FINES, instead of recovering money ??
The simple reason is, FINES have to be shown in the specified registers, which has to be shown to Labour Authorities and they will definitely seek justifications.
Moreover, the FINES can not be kept by the Employers, but have to be given to Labour Welfare Fund of the concerned state.
So the companies feel, it is better to enjoy the recovery from employees.
It is unfortunate that employees, esp. workmen, are too scared to knock at the doors of Labour Court against such ILLEGAL RECOVERIES.
More appalling is the fact that HRs either due to ignorance of Laws or to get favours from the Management, are a willing party to such acts.
From India, Delhi
A few corrections to your arguments :
For water and washing facilities, it is specified that it must be free of cost. Same is specified for crèche.
Canteen, many companies deduct money from the employees salary for food. It is not always free. In fact, few companies provide it free today.
Welfare officer is an officer of the company, so there is no question of recover of that money from employees. He rarely does things for employees anyway.
Frankly, I do not see the relevance of minimum wages breakup in this context.
And, no. The wages paid is far in excess of cost of all of these, and there will still be a lot left to pay to.
In terms of fines, the amount of fines specified is such a small amount, it makes nil difference to the employees. For example, someone caught spitting can be fined, not more than ₹3 per incident. The worker will laugh it off. Incidentally you need to hold a departmental inquiry to fine him ₹3. The maximum amount of fines that can be charged in a month is not more than 3% of gross wages (excluding overtime). Again, workers don't care as it makes insignificant impact. Even getting the list of fines approved is a huge task.
That is the reason the companies do not bother with fines. In the given context, fines can not be retained, so anyone losing a PPE and being fined does not help as the money can not be used by the co sony to buy a replacement. And, imagine having to conduct domestic enquiry to penalise a worker for losing a shoe. The cost benefit does not come close to reality.
Your point on Pay,net of Wages Act, is probably the one I was looking for, which is that unless specified in sec 6 and 7, you can not deduct it from wages. So my original question - where in law is it explicitly prohibited is now answered. We need to look in sec 6&7 of Payment of wages act and not in factories act where the requirement is given.
From India, Mumbai
For water and washing facilities, it is specified that it must be free of cost. Same is specified for crèche.
Canteen, many companies deduct money from the employees salary for food. It is not always free. In fact, few companies provide it free today.
Welfare officer is an officer of the company, so there is no question of recover of that money from employees. He rarely does things for employees anyway.
Frankly, I do not see the relevance of minimum wages breakup in this context.
And, no. The wages paid is far in excess of cost of all of these, and there will still be a lot left to pay to.
In terms of fines, the amount of fines specified is such a small amount, it makes nil difference to the employees. For example, someone caught spitting can be fined, not more than ₹3 per incident. The worker will laugh it off. Incidentally you need to hold a departmental inquiry to fine him ₹3. The maximum amount of fines that can be charged in a month is not more than 3% of gross wages (excluding overtime). Again, workers don't care as it makes insignificant impact. Even getting the list of fines approved is a huge task.
That is the reason the companies do not bother with fines. In the given context, fines can not be retained, so anyone losing a PPE and being fined does not help as the money can not be used by the co sony to buy a replacement. And, imagine having to conduct domestic enquiry to penalise a worker for losing a shoe. The cost benefit does not come close to reality.
Your point on Pay,net of Wages Act, is probably the one I was looking for, which is that unless specified in sec 6 and 7, you can not deduct it from wages. So my original question - where in law is it explicitly prohibited is now answered. We need to look in sec 6&7 of Payment of wages act and not in factories act where the requirement is given.
From India, Mumbai
Sir,
It is open discussion in a professional manner that makes this forum so attractive to me.
I know, I can make a point wothout fear of ridicule and also know that seniors will point out mistakes so that we can answer when it comes up in real life :)
From India, Mumbai
It is open discussion in a professional manner that makes this forum so attractive to me.
I know, I can make a point wothout fear of ridicule and also know that seniors will point out mistakes so that we can answer when it comes up in real life :)
From India, Mumbai
Dear Saswata
I am reproducing Rule 54 of Tamil nadu BOCW Rules 2006
54. Use of Safety Helmets and Shoes:--
(1) The Inspector may, having regard to the nature of hazards involved in the work carried out, order the employer in writing to supply to the building workers exposed to particular hazard at a building or other construction work, any personal protective equipment, namely safety Helmets and Shoes as may be found necessary.
(2) The employer shall ensure that all persons who are performing such work, wear safety, shoes and helmets conforming to the national standards.
While I had a discussion with the Factory Inspector who is holding additional responsibility of BOCW Inspector, he confirmed that the BOCW Inspector is having the power to pass the instruction to the Construction company to issue the PPEs on Free of cost. We are issuing the PPEs on free of cost. But if the workmen runaway without completion of the specified period then we deduct the cost of PPE on pro rata basis and for that the Contractors are also agreeing as it is done with the express consent of the concerned Contractor.
This is for your information please.
From India, Kumbakonam
I am reproducing Rule 54 of Tamil nadu BOCW Rules 2006
54. Use of Safety Helmets and Shoes:--
(1) The Inspector may, having regard to the nature of hazards involved in the work carried out, order the employer in writing to supply to the building workers exposed to particular hazard at a building or other construction work, any personal protective equipment, namely safety Helmets and Shoes as may be found necessary.
(2) The employer shall ensure that all persons who are performing such work, wear safety, shoes and helmets conforming to the national standards.
While I had a discussion with the Factory Inspector who is holding additional responsibility of BOCW Inspector, he confirmed that the BOCW Inspector is having the power to pass the instruction to the Construction company to issue the PPEs on Free of cost. We are issuing the PPEs on free of cost. But if the workmen runaway without completion of the specified period then we deduct the cost of PPE on pro rata basis and for that the Contractors are also agreeing as it is done with the express consent of the concerned Contractor.
This is for your information please.
From India, Kumbakonam
Dear Bhaskar
Thanks for your valuable input with real-life experiences.
I agree with you that the only time it is fully justified to recover (pro-rata) cost of PPE's is when the workman leaves the job (without proper notice and final settlement), and does not return the PPE's.
At other times. it should be the responsibility of the employer to provide the mandated PPE's to the workman, free of cost.
This is not the same as in other situations such as; for example :
- when pizza or fast-food delivery boys/salesman are recruited with the condition that they must have their own two-wheelers (and valid driving licence); in such a case the person is bound to comply with the requirements of the Motor Vehicles Act and he should have a helmet while driving. Since the recruitment has been done with the necessary requirement of having two-wheeler, (and helmet is a part of the package) the employer is not required it, as it is the duty of the owner to have helmets.
-- similarly in case of salesperson, the company may have a dress policy to make them wear ties. Since it is not a life-saving device nor mandated by law; the company may or may not provide it - depending on its policy and culture.
However, the case of safety devices for work in a particular industry is entirely different, and in most case required by Law. For example in high-rise construction industry, safety belt is a must. Also, in highly noise-polluting industry such as power plant etc. its necessary that workers wear EAR PLUGS.
Police officers of anti-terrorist squad may need to wear bullet-proof vests.
In such situations, it is the employer who should provide these, and not ask the employees that they should pay for it.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Thanks for your valuable input with real-life experiences.
I agree with you that the only time it is fully justified to recover (pro-rata) cost of PPE's is when the workman leaves the job (without proper notice and final settlement), and does not return the PPE's.
At other times. it should be the responsibility of the employer to provide the mandated PPE's to the workman, free of cost.
This is not the same as in other situations such as; for example :
- when pizza or fast-food delivery boys/salesman are recruited with the condition that they must have their own two-wheelers (and valid driving licence); in such a case the person is bound to comply with the requirements of the Motor Vehicles Act and he should have a helmet while driving. Since the recruitment has been done with the necessary requirement of having two-wheeler, (and helmet is a part of the package) the employer is not required it, as it is the duty of the owner to have helmets.
-- similarly in case of salesperson, the company may have a dress policy to make them wear ties. Since it is not a life-saving device nor mandated by law; the company may or may not provide it - depending on its policy and culture.
However, the case of safety devices for work in a particular industry is entirely different, and in most case required by Law. For example in high-rise construction industry, safety belt is a must. Also, in highly noise-polluting industry such as power plant etc. its necessary that workers wear EAR PLUGS.
Police officers of anti-terrorist squad may need to wear bullet-proof vests.
In such situations, it is the employer who should provide these, and not ask the employees that they should pay for it.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Hi
Although Raj has given me the exact answer I requires (ie, ref to sec 6,7 of payment of wages act which explicitly disallows deductions other than listed), I would like to discuss this further.
The wording of the section that you quote clearly says that when instructed by the inspector, the employer will be required to supply PPE. This clearly means it must be given free of cost. There is no such explicit provision in th factories act. I have come across this argument many times (though we insist in our reports that it must be provided free quoting sec 7A). That was my original query.
Thanks for your additional inputs.
Does anyone know of any court decision to strengthen the argument ?
From India, Mumbai
Although Raj has given me the exact answer I requires (ie, ref to sec 6,7 of payment of wages act which explicitly disallows deductions other than listed), I would like to discuss this further.
The wording of the section that you quote clearly says that when instructed by the inspector, the employer will be required to supply PPE. This clearly means it must be given free of cost. There is no such explicit provision in th factories act. I have come across this argument many times (though we insist in our reports that it must be provided free quoting sec 7A). That was my original query.
Thanks for your additional inputs.
Does anyone know of any court decision to strengthen the argument ?
From India, Mumbai
Find answers from people who have previously dealt with business and work issues similar to yours - Please Register and Log In to CiteHR and post your query.
HR Concern for Employer n Employee.doc
Contract employee & Principal employer 2017.pdf
16 Vangonotes HRM - Employee Safety and Health.zip