Thanks a lot Rahul/Saswat/Jkct15.
I would confirm what I am doing is illegal consulting a immigration lawyer here in Tanzania and also confirm my company HRs are wrong when they say "All my past immigration records of 6 months are void as I have went out of country and reentered on a valid visa for 2 months so nothing is illegal"
If company still denies this after confirmation of local laws, I plan to seek help from Indian Embassy and leave the country and fight the battle from india.
From Tanzania
I would confirm what I am doing is illegal consulting a immigration lawyer here in Tanzania and also confirm my company HRs are wrong when they say "All my past immigration records of 6 months are void as I have went out of country and reentered on a valid visa for 2 months so nothing is illegal"
If company still denies this after confirmation of local laws, I plan to seek help from Indian Embassy and leave the country and fight the battle from india.
From Tanzania
Hi,
It was nice to see the suggetions of Rahul/Saswat/Jkct15 & (Cite Contribution).
And from this Anir got the solutions.Cite HR really rocks..........................................
Rgrds,
Pawan Singh.
From India, Gurgaon
3It was nice to see the suggetions of Rahul/Saswat/Jkct15 & (Cite Contribution).
And from this Anir got the solutions.Cite HR really rocks..........................................
Rgrds,
Pawan Singh.
From India, Gurgaon
Thanks a lot Surendra/(Cite Contribution). Thats really very very useful information you all provided. I was so threatened by my company that I thought i couldnt do anything. Having a smile on my face after 5 months :) this help really means a lot to me.
(Cite Contribution) - I am in tanzania.
Pavan - you are right, cite HR really rocks! :)
From Tanzania
(Cite Contribution) - I am in tanzania.
Pavan - you are right, cite HR really rocks! :)
From Tanzania
Hi Anir,
As per your contract letter, you cannot resign from your duties wich is not valid.
You can resign from your services any time however, you need to follow the notice period clause.
If you serve & complete the notice period, no one can stop you on quiting.
With regards to the renewal of Visa, ask a legal document from the company ( designed by legal team) which gives the details of your stay, reason & duration. If caught in immegration you can hand over this document, moving forward the officials will take it up with your company.
Its nothing to worry be calm & talk to the legal officers of your client company to get more resolutions.
From India, Bangalore
As per your contract letter, you cannot resign from your duties wich is not valid.
You can resign from your services any time however, you need to follow the notice period clause.
If you serve & complete the notice period, no one can stop you on quiting.
With regards to the renewal of Visa, ask a legal document from the company ( designed by legal team) which gives the details of your stay, reason & duration. If caught in immegration you can hand over this document, moving forward the officials will take it up with your company.
Its nothing to worry be calm & talk to the legal officers of your client company to get more resolutions.
From India, Bangalore
Hello Anir,
I guess you have got the PoA ready by now after all the inputs from the excellent Forum that's CiteHR, apart from the well-deserved Peace of Mind too :-)
First of all, reach out to the POE contact the nearest Embassy [think it's in Dar es Salaam] & take their guidance.
Maybe you should also think of contacting the media --basically one of the Indian TV news-channels who have a presence in Tanzania--guess CNN-IBN should have someone there covering. Maybe even other channels too could have someone there--just do a Google search.
There are 3 reasons I am also suggesting this is:
[/B] First, quite a few times the responses of the Indian Govt officials change [for the better] when they realize the Media is into the scene. This could help you resolve things faster AND ensure you don't get into further trouble--just imagine the scenario if the authorities get a whiff of what happened?
Second reason: No Company will dare to stop any of your eligibilities--in your case the Experience Letter, etc, if they realize the whole issue is going to the media. If you watch Indian News-channels regularly, you know what I mean--what with so many scams being reported daily, but more importantly the changed responses of the primary actors in the episodes.
Third reason for my suggestion to approach the media is: in a way, you will help all the others--in the long-run, who in all probability, could be in a similar situation--without any idea of CiteHR. I know of cases such as your's in the Middle-East, and that too with unskilled/semi-skilled workers. But IT guys in similar situations? Frankly, I get a feeling that we Indians use our great flair for 'jugaad' in all the wrong ways--finding the way out of any rules--and your company seems to be one of them, with Satyam Ramalinga Raju being the Super-Grandmaster of course.
Right now THE FIRST PRIORITY FOR YOU IS TO GET OUT OF THERE ASAP--REPEAT ASAP. Now get going Anir--& rest assured that everyone @ CiteHR will do all that can be possibly done @ this end.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
I guess you have got the PoA ready by now after all the inputs from the excellent Forum that's CiteHR, apart from the well-deserved Peace of Mind too :-)
First of all, reach out to the POE contact the nearest Embassy [think it's in Dar es Salaam] & take their guidance.
Maybe you should also think of contacting the media --basically one of the Indian TV news-channels who have a presence in Tanzania--guess CNN-IBN should have someone there covering. Maybe even other channels too could have someone there--just do a Google search.
There are 3 reasons I am also suggesting this is:
[/B] First, quite a few times the responses of the Indian Govt officials change [for the better] when they realize the Media is into the scene. This could help you resolve things faster AND ensure you don't get into further trouble--just imagine the scenario if the authorities get a whiff of what happened?
Second reason: No Company will dare to stop any of your eligibilities--in your case the Experience Letter, etc, if they realize the whole issue is going to the media. If you watch Indian News-channels regularly, you know what I mean--what with so many scams being reported daily, but more importantly the changed responses of the primary actors in the episodes.
Third reason for my suggestion to approach the media is: in a way, you will help all the others--in the long-run, who in all probability, could be in a similar situation--without any idea of CiteHR. I know of cases such as your's in the Middle-East, and that too with unskilled/semi-skilled workers. But IT guys in similar situations? Frankly, I get a feeling that we Indians use our great flair for 'jugaad' in all the wrong ways--finding the way out of any rules--and your company seems to be one of them, with Satyam Ramalinga Raju being the Super-Grandmaster of course.
Right now THE FIRST PRIORITY FOR YOU IS TO GET OUT OF THERE ASAP--REPEAT ASAP. Now get going Anir--& rest assured that everyone @ CiteHR will do all that can be possibly done @ this end.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Thanks Gaurav, My notice period clause is very clear and I am okay to serve it from here. Its the termination clause that gets me stuck here.
Notice Period clause - Upon completion of theProbation Period and issueof theConfirmation Letter, thenotice
required to beprovided by either Party for termination of the Employee's servicewith die
Companywill beSixty (60) days. Indieevent that dieEmployeejoinedasaconfirmedemployee
thenoticepenodfromeither sidewill still remainSixty(60) daysfromdieCommencementDate.
TheCompany reservestheright toadjust unavailed leaveor monthly salary withtherequired
noticeperiod.TheCompanymaywaivedienoticeperiod at itsdiscretion. Intheevent that the
Employee leaves his/her Employment without giving notice, he/she will liable to pay the
Companyanamount equivalent toSixty (60) days' salary,or theCompany shall havedieright to
setoff suchamount fromany amount thatmaybeduetotheEmployee.
Termination Clause of Contract - The Employee understands that he/she may be called upon, during the course of the
Employment, torender servicestotheCompany'sCustomersat locationsoutsideIndia. Insuch
event, all expensesrelatedtotravel,boardingandlodgingwithrega rd tosuchoverseastravel will
besolely met by theCompany. In consideration of such expenditureby theCompany, the
Employeeagreesthat he/sheshall not havedieright toterminatetheEmployment duringdie
courseof any suchoverseasassignment.TheEmployeefurther agreesdiathe/sheshall nothave
the right to terminate the Employment for a period of six (6) mondis from the date of
completion of such overseas assignment. The Employee agrees that, in the event he/she
terminatestheEmployment for any reasonwhatsoeverprior totheexpiryof six (6)monthsfrom
thedateof completionof suchoverseasassignment,withoutprejudicetoany otherprovisionsof
theseTerms, dieEmployeeshall becomeimmediately liabletoreimbursedieCompany for any
andall expensesincurred by theCompany related to theEmployee's travel to such overseas
location, boarding, lodging, transport, any per diem/other allowanceand any other incidental expensesincurredby heCompanywithregardtotheEmployee'soverseasassignme nt,exceptin
dieevent theCompany, initssolediscretionandinwriting,waivessuchexpenses
From Tanzania
Notice Period clause - Upon completion of theProbation Period and issueof theConfirmation Letter, thenotice
required to beprovided by either Party for termination of the Employee's servicewith die
Companywill beSixty (60) days. Indieevent that dieEmployeejoinedasaconfirmedemployee
thenoticepenodfromeither sidewill still remainSixty(60) daysfromdieCommencementDate.
TheCompany reservestheright toadjust unavailed leaveor monthly salary withtherequired
noticeperiod.TheCompanymaywaivedienoticeperiod at itsdiscretion. Intheevent that the
Employee leaves his/her Employment without giving notice, he/she will liable to pay the
Companyanamount equivalent toSixty (60) days' salary,or theCompany shall havedieright to
setoff suchamount fromany amount thatmaybeduetotheEmployee.
Termination Clause of Contract - The Employee understands that he/she may be called upon, during the course of the
Employment, torender servicestotheCompany'sCustomersat locationsoutsideIndia. Insuch
event, all expensesrelatedtotravel,boardingandlodgingwithrega rd tosuchoverseastravel will
besolely met by theCompany. In consideration of such expenditureby theCompany, the
Employeeagreesthat he/sheshall not havedieright toterminatetheEmployment duringdie
courseof any suchoverseasassignment.TheEmployeefurther agreesdiathe/sheshall nothave
the right to terminate the Employment for a period of six (6) mondis from the date of
completion of such overseas assignment. The Employee agrees that, in the event he/she
terminatestheEmployment for any reasonwhatsoeverprior totheexpiryof six (6)monthsfrom
thedateof completionof suchoverseasassignment,withoutprejudicetoany otherprovisionsof
theseTerms, dieEmployeeshall becomeimmediately liabletoreimbursedieCompany for any
andall expensesincurred by theCompany related to theEmployee's travel to such overseas
location, boarding, lodging, transport, any per diem/other allowanceand any other incidental expensesincurredby heCompanywithregardtotheEmployee'soverseasassignme nt,exceptin
dieevent theCompany, initssolediscretionandinwriting,waivessuchexpenses
From Tanzania
Hello Anir,
It's good that you have posted the 'ad verbatim' of the Notice Period & Termination clauses of your Offer.
So far I think you have been looking @ your problem w.r.t. the clauses 'in isolation', while you need to look @ ALL the clauses TOGETHER [even the court works that way--if it goes to that stage].
What comes out very clearly from both the clauses is:
1] There is no clarity of the resignation/termination norms if an employee resigns DURING THE PROBATION PERIOD.
2] Once an employee is sent on-site [overseas], there is NO WAY he/she can resign between the date of embarking until 6 months after return.
So what you did--by resigning while overseas--is wrong as per the terms of your Offer. Whether it's ethical on the Company's part to give such an Offer is a different question--and I don't think we are debating that aspect in this thread.
Looking @ it in another way, even if your Resignation is accepted, as per the Offer you can't expect the Relieving until 6 months AFTER return--you can calculate the total service you would be putting into AFTER actual Resignation.
The only way-out, as far as I can see, is to get out of the situation you are in--since it's now much more than just following the Offer's Terms. Your situation is now mixed-up with legalities of Tanzania as well as International laws--nothing to do with Indian laws, as of now.
The sooner you get out, the better for you. Focus on those lines--& I am more sure now than when I suggested earlier in the thread that it would be better to take some support--the Indian embassy AND the media--I wouldn't suggest any lawyer there as the first step, since there is every chance you could be taken advantage of.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
It's good that you have posted the 'ad verbatim' of the Notice Period & Termination clauses of your Offer.
So far I think you have been looking @ your problem w.r.t. the clauses 'in isolation', while you need to look @ ALL the clauses TOGETHER [even the court works that way--if it goes to that stage].
What comes out very clearly from both the clauses is:
1] There is no clarity of the resignation/termination norms if an employee resigns DURING THE PROBATION PERIOD.
2] Once an employee is sent on-site [overseas], there is NO WAY he/she can resign between the date of embarking until 6 months after return.
So what you did--by resigning while overseas--is wrong as per the terms of your Offer. Whether it's ethical on the Company's part to give such an Offer is a different question--and I don't think we are debating that aspect in this thread.
Looking @ it in another way, even if your Resignation is accepted, as per the Offer you can't expect the Relieving until 6 months AFTER return--you can calculate the total service you would be putting into AFTER actual Resignation.
The only way-out, as far as I can see, is to get out of the situation you are in--since it's now much more than just following the Offer's Terms. Your situation is now mixed-up with legalities of Tanzania as well as International laws--nothing to do with Indian laws, as of now.
The sooner you get out, the better for you. Focus on those lines--& I am more sure now than when I suggested earlier in the thread that it would be better to take some support--the Indian embassy AND the media--I wouldn't suggest any lawyer there as the first step, since there is every chance you could be taken advantage of.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
I consulted a immigration expert lawyers yesterday to understand the law. He told me following:
1. I have a valid CTA, so i am allowed to carry out temporary assignments in the country(meetings, presentations etc). So my stay here is not illegal. However, I cannot work full time on the visa.
2. It can be clear from my passport records, that I am misusing the law, extending the visa, traveling out n back in 1-2 days n been continuously for months in country and can be deported if noticed.
My stand,
- I am still ready to serve the 2 months of notice sitting here (gets over nov end). But not 3 as they are telling me as that makes me travel out and in once again.
- If my company still says 3 months I plan to leave the country on agreed date and go by law and challenge my contract with company, as their overseas assignment made me get into illegal activities and contract cannot make me do it.
I am plan to be lenient because, if company is ready to wave off 6 months of no resign clause, it can help both. Also I am not sure of surprisesmy company can give me once i walk out like asking for all the travel expense/stay etc (of 8 months) as per the clause above :(
From Tanzania
1. I have a valid CTA, so i am allowed to carry out temporary assignments in the country(meetings, presentations etc). So my stay here is not illegal. However, I cannot work full time on the visa.
2. It can be clear from my passport records, that I am misusing the law, extending the visa, traveling out n back in 1-2 days n been continuously for months in country and can be deported if noticed.
My stand,
- I am still ready to serve the 2 months of notice sitting here (gets over nov end). But not 3 as they are telling me as that makes me travel out and in once again.
- If my company still says 3 months I plan to leave the country on agreed date and go by law and challenge my contract with company, as their overseas assignment made me get into illegal activities and contract cannot make me do it.
I am plan to be lenient because, if company is ready to wave off 6 months of no resign clause, it can help both. Also I am not sure of surprisesmy company can give me once i walk out like asking for all the travel expense/stay etc (of 8 months) as per the clause above :(
From Tanzania
Have someone at home check with a labour lawyer about the validity of the terms of your employment. I remember there are some supreme court orders that have invalidated employment terms on grounds of being restrictive and coercive. I think yours comes under that.
Legally speaking, you would not be required to follow your terms of employment if it results in doing something illegal and in such a case, your terms and all conditions are no longer valid.
No company is a sane mind will ask you to return the expenses and travel cost when they know that it will take an illegal or potentially illegal document to scrutiny of court and media.
Regards
Saswata
From India, Mumbai
Legally speaking, you would not be required to follow your terms of employment if it results in doing something illegal and in such a case, your terms and all conditions are no longer valid.
No company is a sane mind will ask you to return the expenses and travel cost when they know that it will take an illegal or potentially illegal document to scrutiny of court and media.
Regards
Saswata
From India, Mumbai
Few more updates:
1. HR told me on phone there is an "internal document" (which is not shared with employees) says my notice is 3 months for employees placed onsite, while my employment terms say it is 2 months. and he agreed to share it with me. While i hear another HR speaking in background and saying it is 2 months and we have checked records.
2. When i communicate via email with HRs to share this document with me, They tell me to talk to reporting manager (and only cc HR) regarding any queries related to my relieving.
3. My Reporting Manager says it is HR concern. and mails me to be patient while my concerns are being taken care.
I am being trapped in a deadlock.
All i want is to finish my 2 months of notice n escape from this place and my company in good terms. By creating confusion my issues are being delayed the same way how they made me stay here on business and work saying work visa is being taken care.
From Tanzania
1. HR told me on phone there is an "internal document" (which is not shared with employees) says my notice is 3 months for employees placed onsite, while my employment terms say it is 2 months. and he agreed to share it with me. While i hear another HR speaking in background and saying it is 2 months and we have checked records.
2. When i communicate via email with HRs to share this document with me, They tell me to talk to reporting manager (and only cc HR) regarding any queries related to my relieving.
3. My Reporting Manager says it is HR concern. and mails me to be patient while my concerns are being taken care.
I am being trapped in a deadlock.
All i want is to finish my 2 months of notice n escape from this place and my company in good terms. By creating confusion my issues are being delayed the same way how they made me stay here on business and work saying work visa is being taken care.
From Tanzania
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Notice Period Issue.zip
Notice period.jpg
Notice Period Extension Letter Format.doc