Hi, I have recently joined one company in Karnataka as HR manager. My doubt is on standing order. Much before union formation company has got a standing order certified from authority. In that only Labour Dept seal and sign available (no union concurrence, as union was not existing at that time). my doubt is as follows
> Since this do not have union concurrence. is it valid. Though Labour dept. says it is valid because you have certified the same. As long as Management/ union didn't ask for amendment with concerned authority it is still valid. Only when both side request for amendment it needs to amended.
> recently when we took disciplinary action based on SO, union objected saying that this SO do not have their concurrence and not valid
> we too do not want to take up with authority to amend at this juncture as we wanted to do during MOS/LTS
looking forward expert opinion.
From India, Bangalore
4> Since this do not have union concurrence. is it valid. Though Labour dept. says it is valid because you have certified the same. As long as Management/ union didn't ask for amendment with concerned authority it is still valid. Only when both side request for amendment it needs to amended.
> recently when we took disciplinary action based on SO, union objected saying that this SO do not have their concurrence and not valid
> we too do not want to take up with authority to amend at this juncture as we wanted to do during MOS/LTS
looking forward expert opinion.
From India, Bangalore
Certified Standing Orders are Lawful, Valid Orders which apply to the Establishment irrespective of Any Office-Beareres of any Unions Stand.
Certified Standing Orders may Be Amended Need-based not on the hwhims and Fancies of either the Employer or the Employees or teir Representative Union.
Your Employer (Punishing Authority) has Legal Locus Standi to proceed with Disciplinary Action in accordance with Existing Certified Standing Orders and Employer's Prerogative is Non-Negotiable.
Please as HR Functionery you may in consultations with your Employer Explain to the Union's Office Bearers the Provisions of the Industrial Employment (Standing Orders) Act 1946 with relevant Amendments thereto.
Kritarth Team of IR Consultants
Bengaluru
29 Nov 2019
From India, Delhi
Certified Standing Orders may Be Amended Need-based not on the hwhims and Fancies of either the Employer or the Employees or teir Representative Union.
Your Employer (Punishing Authority) has Legal Locus Standi to proceed with Disciplinary Action in accordance with Existing Certified Standing Orders and Employer's Prerogative is Non-Negotiable.
Please as HR Functionery you may in consultations with your Employer Explain to the Union's Office Bearers the Provisions of the Industrial Employment (Standing Orders) Act 1946 with relevant Amendments thereto.
Kritarth Team of IR Consultants
Bengaluru
29 Nov 2019
From India, Delhi
Dear Shaju,
Simply put Standing Orders under the Industrial Employment (Standing Orders ) Act, 1946 is a document of statutory force precisely setting down the conditions of employment in an industrial establishment. Once certified, it is fully valid until it is amended partially or replaced by a freshly certified one. A trade union coming into existence or any employee joining later after its certification cannot raise any plea against such orders on the ground of non-consultation. If they have any objection about any clause of the already certified Standing Orders, they are entitled to initiate suitable amendment process.
Certification of amendments depends upon many factors like change in circumstances, modifications necessitated by statutory amendments to existing provisions of applicable labour laws and the like. Therefore, either the employer or the employees or both can apply for amendment.
Till such time, already certified standing orders will apply.
From India, Salem
Simply put Standing Orders under the Industrial Employment (Standing Orders ) Act, 1946 is a document of statutory force precisely setting down the conditions of employment in an industrial establishment. Once certified, it is fully valid until it is amended partially or replaced by a freshly certified one. A trade union coming into existence or any employee joining later after its certification cannot raise any plea against such orders on the ground of non-consultation. If they have any objection about any clause of the already certified Standing Orders, they are entitled to initiate suitable amendment process.
Certification of amendments depends upon many factors like change in circumstances, modifications necessitated by statutory amendments to existing provisions of applicable labour laws and the like. Therefore, either the employer or the employees or both can apply for amendment.
Till such time, already certified standing orders will apply.
From India, Salem
Thanks to Mr.Umakanthan Sir & Kritarth Team for giving clear understanding we will move forward accordingly
From India, Bangalore
From India, Bangalore
Certified SO is valid until any changes made by both parties. Check the applicable coloum of the SO and Appointment order the of employees.
The standing order certified from authority shall remain valid till any ammendment proposed to the certifying authority.
As per section 10 sub-section 1 of the Standing Order Act 1946 an approved Standing Order cannot be changed within 6 months of the certification or the last amendment unless both the parties, i.e., employer and workmen or a trade union or other representative body of the workmen give consent through an agreement to do such an amendment.
As mentioned in subsection 2, the employer or any workman or a trade union or other representative body of the workmen may apply to the certifying officer for amendment of the pre-certified standing order with proper application.
The union can not object the certified standing orders in force, you act/punish according to your standing order in force. Let the union challenge the management action before the authority or court of law, that present SO is a an invalid document.
From India, Mumbai
As per section 10 sub-section 1 of the Standing Order Act 1946 an approved Standing Order cannot be changed within 6 months of the certification or the last amendment unless both the parties, i.e., employer and workmen or a trade union or other representative body of the workmen give consent through an agreement to do such an amendment.
As mentioned in subsection 2, the employer or any workman or a trade union or other representative body of the workmen may apply to the certifying officer for amendment of the pre-certified standing order with proper application.
The union can not object the certified standing orders in force, you act/punish according to your standing order in force. Let the union challenge the management action before the authority or court of law, that present SO is a an invalid document.
From India, Mumbai
Once an authority certify it shall be valid. Union cannot question its validity with employer. If union has any grievance with certification, they need to approach certifying authority and not employer, since the employer also can not make any change without approval from certifying officer.
You can reject claim of union on the validity of SOs and proceed as per procedure laid down in your SOs.
From India, Hyderabad
You can reject claim of union on the validity of SOs and proceed as per procedure laid down in your SOs.
From India, Hyderabad
Dear All,
Thanks for giving your valuable comments into it.
I have following queries
1:- Without workman consent how standing order can be approved by L.C (is it valid)
2:- Until the Standing order approved , Model Standing order applied on company so it doesn't matter if standing order approved or not , you also can take action under Model Standing order if it falls.
Please give your inputs
Regards
Arun Chaudhary
From India, New Delhi
Thanks for giving your valuable comments into it.
I have following queries
1:- Without workman consent how standing order can be approved by L.C (is it valid)
2:- Until the Standing order approved , Model Standing order applied on company so it doesn't matter if standing order approved or not , you also can take action under Model Standing order if it falls.
Please give your inputs
Regards
Arun Chaudhary
From India, New Delhi
Dear Arun,
1) The process of certification under the IE(SO)Act,1946 is essentially a consultative process. As such, the Certifying Officer cannot do away with the participation of the employees or their trade unions. As soon as the draft standing orders are received, the certifying officer would invite all unions mentioned in the application for discussion. In case of no union, the certifying officer would conduct election, and only the five representatives elected by the employees in such election would be permitted to take part in the discussions before certification.
2) YES.
From India, Salem
1) The process of certification under the IE(SO)Act,1946 is essentially a consultative process. As such, the Certifying Officer cannot do away with the participation of the employees or their trade unions. As soon as the draft standing orders are received, the certifying officer would invite all unions mentioned in the application for discussion. In case of no union, the certifying officer would conduct election, and only the five representatives elected by the employees in such election would be permitted to take part in the discussions before certification.
2) YES.
From India, Salem
The Act laid a down a procedure where there is no union and certifying officer would follow. If there is no union at the time of certification is not valid to nullify certification. Once certifying officer followed process and certified it can not be challenged on the ground of no union consent. Union existence is not a must for S Os certification,
Regarding second point, if certified standing orders are in place, you need follow the same. If you do not have certified standing orders then you can follow model standing orders. Please understand model standing orders are to provide guidelines and may not cover all your requirements or service conditions.
Hope it is clear.
From India, Hyderabad
Regarding second point, if certified standing orders are in place, you need follow the same. If you do not have certified standing orders then you can follow model standing orders. Please understand model standing orders are to provide guidelines and may not cover all your requirements or service conditions.
Hope it is clear.
From India, Hyderabad
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