dear all,
please advice that in case a civil job contract for repair and renovation of school building awarded to a civil contractor under co's CSR project and work order given by my company, whether it will attract the provision of CL (R&A) Act or not? please remember that the entire work has been carried out in a school, a place outside my co's premises.
please suggest of any other laws whether applicable!!
Rgds,
DG
From India, Delhi
4please advice that in case a civil job contract for repair and renovation of school building awarded to a civil contractor under co's CSR project and work order given by my company, whether it will attract the provision of CL (R&A) Act or not? please remember that the entire work has been carried out in a school, a place outside my co's premises.
please suggest of any other laws whether applicable!!
Rgds,
DG
From India, Delhi
Dear DG,
The subject title of your thread is "applicability of labour laws in a job done out site co's premises".
Let me tell you first that the labour laws are applicable to you even you carry out any work in your house or even on road footpath engaging even a single person. However, certain labour laws are applicable to you when you engage specific no.of persons as stated in that particular labour law.
Now I am coming to your main query.
To my understanding, you are doing repairs and renovations job of a school. You say that this school is not in your company and it is out side your company premises. In this case you want to know CLRA Act and any other labour law is applicable to you.
Answer to your query is - YES. Not only CLRA but all other labour laws as applicable to the school are applicable to you including BOCW Act, subject to conditions.
I request other members to continue this discussion. What are the labour laws applicable to DG, the queriest and when. What are the obligations, duties and responsibilities of him etc.
From India, Mumbai
The subject title of your thread is "applicability of labour laws in a job done out site co's premises".
Let me tell you first that the labour laws are applicable to you even you carry out any work in your house or even on road footpath engaging even a single person. However, certain labour laws are applicable to you when you engage specific no.of persons as stated in that particular labour law.
Now I am coming to your main query.
To my understanding, you are doing repairs and renovations job of a school. You say that this school is not in your company and it is out side your company premises. In this case you want to know CLRA Act and any other labour law is applicable to you.
Answer to your query is - YES. Not only CLRA but all other labour laws as applicable to the school are applicable to you including BOCW Act, subject to conditions.
I request other members to continue this discussion. What are the labour laws applicable to DG, the queriest and when. What are the obligations, duties and responsibilities of him etc.
From India, Mumbai
Basically it is like the company has taken a contract and whether it is charity or not, the labour safety is to be followed. So all the laws that would otherwise be applicable to a contract labour on site, are applicable to off site.
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
I agree with the comments on this.
Is the purpose of doing CSR activities to take advantage and benefit by violating the Laws ???
Just because some activity of a company fall under the CSR activities; this is not a reason to violate the Labour Laws.
Warm regards.,
From India, Delhi
Is the purpose of doing CSR activities to take advantage and benefit by violating the Laws ???
Just because some activity of a company fall under the CSR activities; this is not a reason to violate the Labour Laws.
Warm regards.,
From India, Delhi
If your company is supervising the work going on in school, each and every labor laws are applicable. Supervision and source of payment are very important criteria to decide Employer-Employee relationship.
Since you are supervising the work being carried on in the school and you are also paying to workers working there, all worker/employees working there will be treated as your employee and are entitiled for all statutory benefits including ESIC, EPF, gratuity etc.
CLRA Act will also be enforceable between your organization and school management
regards,
Kamal
From India, Pune
Since you are supervising the work being carried on in the school and you are also paying to workers working there, all worker/employees working there will be treated as your employee and are entitiled for all statutory benefits including ESIC, EPF, gratuity etc.
CLRA Act will also be enforceable between your organization and school management
regards,
Kamal
From India, Pune
I think we are misreading the situation and the intent.
1. The school where the repair work is being done is not an establishment under the contract labour act. Even if it were to be, the principal employer would not be this company but the school management.
2. How the contractor is selected, how he is supervised (by school or company) needs to be checked before deciding who is responsible,
3. How the payment is made is another consideration. If the contractor is being paid by the company, may as well verify compliance with all labour laws. If the money is paid to the school and they are paying the contractor, then it is not the responsibility of the company to ensure compliance.
4. How many workers are employed ? If it is less than 20, then contract labour act will not apply anyway (remember, it is location wise)
Though contract labour act does not apply, building and other construction workers act (BOCW) applies. It is better to ensure that the contractor is registered and is paying the cess.
Now for the intent :
I think what DG wanted to ask is whether it is the responsibility of his company to monitor compliance and to follow the same level,of rigorous enforcement that he does for contractors working for his own factory. I do not think that the same level if compliance enforcement is required.
From India, Mumbai
1. The school where the repair work is being done is not an establishment under the contract labour act. Even if it were to be, the principal employer would not be this company but the school management.
2. How the contractor is selected, how he is supervised (by school or company) needs to be checked before deciding who is responsible,
3. How the payment is made is another consideration. If the contractor is being paid by the company, may as well verify compliance with all labour laws. If the money is paid to the school and they are paying the contractor, then it is not the responsibility of the company to ensure compliance.
4. How many workers are employed ? If it is less than 20, then contract labour act will not apply anyway (remember, it is location wise)
Though contract labour act does not apply, building and other construction workers act (BOCW) applies. It is better to ensure that the contractor is registered and is paying the cess.
Now for the intent :
I think what DG wanted to ask is whether it is the responsibility of his company to monitor compliance and to follow the same level,of rigorous enforcement that he does for contractors working for his own factory. I do not think that the same level if compliance enforcement is required.
From India, Mumbai
Dear Saswat and friends
Plz note what has been submitted; esp. the following :
"under co's CSR project and work order given by my company,"
Hope you are aware that company's take up several kind of projects under their CSR (Corporate Social Responsibility) activities; such as :
- building public roads (with or without tie-up with PWD or other Govt deptt)
- building culverts; small bridges
- putting up tube-wells
- repairing or constructing school building; health centres; training schools/institutes
- taking up several employment generation programs and training
- building bus, rest shelters
- small irrigation projects
-adopting several villages
etc. The list is almost endless.
These are undertaken in rural areas where these companies are situated; which are generally in manufacturing; power projects; mining and metals etc.
An HR who has worked only in metros or in sectors such as hospitality,real estate, Education, IT etc and in companies governed by Shops & Establishment Act; may not have even heard of these things or activities which are taken up by Companies.
Here, everything is the Company's responsibility; and there is no role of the school or the beneficiaries in administration of the scheme and paying its expenses. They are simply - the Beneficiaries.
Perhaps, this may sound bizarre, to the un-initiated !!!!
Going further on this, companies also undertake Medical and Community Health drives regularly, in and around several villages; such as :
- Weekly medical camps for diagnosis. treatment and distribution of medicines
- special annual camps for cataract surgery
- periodic vaccination and immunization programs
- ambulance services for emergencies including childbirth
- malaria and mosquito eradications
etc etc.
Going by the above logic - that legal compliance is not required for CSR work outside the company - a company for its medical and health activities - can employ UNQUALIFIED DOCTORS for such activities ?????
Let us not make such ASSUMPTIONS which not only borders on absurdity, but are potentially illegal.
It may kindly be noted; that every company is bound to ACT LEGALLY and can not commit any illegal act.
(Although it is another thing that any entity can break the law and commit illegal and immoral acts.)
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Plz note what has been submitted; esp. the following :
"under co's CSR project and work order given by my company,"
Hope you are aware that company's take up several kind of projects under their CSR (Corporate Social Responsibility) activities; such as :
- building public roads (with or without tie-up with PWD or other Govt deptt)
- building culverts; small bridges
- putting up tube-wells
- repairing or constructing school building; health centres; training schools/institutes
- taking up several employment generation programs and training
- building bus, rest shelters
- small irrigation projects
-adopting several villages
etc. The list is almost endless.
These are undertaken in rural areas where these companies are situated; which are generally in manufacturing; power projects; mining and metals etc.
An HR who has worked only in metros or in sectors such as hospitality,real estate, Education, IT etc and in companies governed by Shops & Establishment Act; may not have even heard of these things or activities which are taken up by Companies.
Here, everything is the Company's responsibility; and there is no role of the school or the beneficiaries in administration of the scheme and paying its expenses. They are simply - the Beneficiaries.
Perhaps, this may sound bizarre, to the un-initiated !!!!
Going further on this, companies also undertake Medical and Community Health drives regularly, in and around several villages; such as :
- Weekly medical camps for diagnosis. treatment and distribution of medicines
- special annual camps for cataract surgery
- periodic vaccination and immunization programs
- ambulance services for emergencies including childbirth
- malaria and mosquito eradications
etc etc.
Going by the above logic - that legal compliance is not required for CSR work outside the company - a company for its medical and health activities - can employ UNQUALIFIED DOCTORS for such activities ?????
Let us not make such ASSUMPTIONS which not only borders on absurdity, but are potentially illegal.
It may kindly be noted; that every company is bound to ACT LEGALLY and can not commit any illegal act.
(Although it is another thing that any entity can break the law and commit illegal and immoral acts.)
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear DG,
Applicability of any enactment to a job/work depends on several factors like:
1) Nature of employment : Permanent/ Contractual
2) No. of Persons employed : 20 or more (CLRA applicable), 10 or More ( BOCWA applicable, 5 or more Interstate workmen (Interstate migrant workmen act applicable)
3) Apart from Licence/ Registration there are certain acts which are always applicable to all job/ works i.e. Minimum wages Act, Payment of Wages Act etc.
4) Period of work : Bonus Act
5) Type of workmen engaged (Male/ female) : Maternity Benefit Act, Equal Remuneration Act etc.
6) Social Security : EC Act, ESI Act, EPF Act etc.
You are request to analyze aforesaid first to check the applicability of any enactment on your said job/work.
From India, New Delhi
Applicability of any enactment to a job/work depends on several factors like:
1) Nature of employment : Permanent/ Contractual
2) No. of Persons employed : 20 or more (CLRA applicable), 10 or More ( BOCWA applicable, 5 or more Interstate workmen (Interstate migrant workmen act applicable)
3) Apart from Licence/ Registration there are certain acts which are always applicable to all job/ works i.e. Minimum wages Act, Payment of Wages Act etc.
4) Period of work : Bonus Act
5) Type of workmen engaged (Male/ female) : Maternity Benefit Act, Equal Remuneration Act etc.
6) Social Security : EC Act, ESI Act, EPF Act etc.
You are request to analyze aforesaid first to check the applicability of any enactment on your said job/work.
From India, New Delhi
My dear friends
We should try to provide correct answers for the queries; rather than attempt at guess-work and confuse the person who seeks guidance and more information.
HR is a vast field and a person can not possibly have experience in all the sectors and industries; their specialities or peculiarities. This is the reason that these days HR has become a very niche career; for example, companies in IT or Medicine will prefer people having experience in that sector only.
What has been stated earlier by me is something which any person who is exposed to CSR activities of any good and big company ( as CSR activities worth the name, are undertaken only by such companies), will be able to understand and appreciate.
I have only tried to present the correct picture to those who would like to know what actually happens during CSR work and how companies implement it,
The relevant information to note is :
The Work Order has been taken out by the Company; and given (i.e. awarded) to Company's contractor.
It stands to reason that any contractor of a company must be registered under the C L (R& A) Act;
unless of course, we are taking about a small proprietory-outfit sort of company, in which case it is difficult to imagine them doing such CSR work.
In any case, whether it is CSR work or otherwise the provision of the ACT are applicable; and simply saying it is CSR work or discussing the STATUS OF THE BENEFICIARY - whether a school or a village and villagers; is not acceptable and relevant.
Secondly, let me clarify once again:
In any CSR activities, the entire responsibility, from financing, implementation, supervision, handing over etc. vests with the company.
It does not matter what is the NATURE OF THE SCHOOL. The School has no relevance, or any role to play in the administration of activities. The school is only the BENEFICIARY and has no effective say in this matter except refusal to be a part of the company's CSR work.
As a matter of fact, in several primary schools in thee tribal and backward region of the country, the poor head-master or teachers of thee school do not even know how things are being done for their school.
These are the practical realities, that one experiences while undertaking such works.
Moreover, the SDM/DM of the sub-division/District and thee Labour Deptt. keep a hawk eye on such activities; so it is all the more necessary to abide by all thee legal provisions.
In case, there is still some doubts on this; the matter may be clarified with the CSR deptt of any renowned company. (I have had the experience of working in three states with three different blue-chip companies).
Further, I invite more comments on this from CSR professionals who have worked in CSR projects of their companies.
I apologize if it hurts the feeling of anyone. My attempts are only to give proper direction and firm factual footing to this discussion; which shall help in enhancing the knowledge of our members.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
We should try to provide correct answers for the queries; rather than attempt at guess-work and confuse the person who seeks guidance and more information.
HR is a vast field and a person can not possibly have experience in all the sectors and industries; their specialities or peculiarities. This is the reason that these days HR has become a very niche career; for example, companies in IT or Medicine will prefer people having experience in that sector only.
What has been stated earlier by me is something which any person who is exposed to CSR activities of any good and big company ( as CSR activities worth the name, are undertaken only by such companies), will be able to understand and appreciate.
I have only tried to present the correct picture to those who would like to know what actually happens during CSR work and how companies implement it,
The relevant information to note is :
The Work Order has been taken out by the Company; and given (i.e. awarded) to Company's contractor.
It stands to reason that any contractor of a company must be registered under the C L (R& A) Act;
unless of course, we are taking about a small proprietory-outfit sort of company, in which case it is difficult to imagine them doing such CSR work.
In any case, whether it is CSR work or otherwise the provision of the ACT are applicable; and simply saying it is CSR work or discussing the STATUS OF THE BENEFICIARY - whether a school or a village and villagers; is not acceptable and relevant.
Secondly, let me clarify once again:
In any CSR activities, the entire responsibility, from financing, implementation, supervision, handing over etc. vests with the company.
It does not matter what is the NATURE OF THE SCHOOL. The School has no relevance, or any role to play in the administration of activities. The school is only the BENEFICIARY and has no effective say in this matter except refusal to be a part of the company's CSR work.
As a matter of fact, in several primary schools in thee tribal and backward region of the country, the poor head-master or teachers of thee school do not even know how things are being done for their school.
These are the practical realities, that one experiences while undertaking such works.
Moreover, the SDM/DM of the sub-division/District and thee Labour Deptt. keep a hawk eye on such activities; so it is all the more necessary to abide by all thee legal provisions.
In case, there is still some doubts on this; the matter may be clarified with the CSR deptt of any renowned company. (I have had the experience of working in three states with three different blue-chip companies).
Further, I invite more comments on this from CSR professionals who have worked in CSR projects of their companies.
I apologize if it hurts the feeling of anyone. My attempts are only to give proper direction and firm factual footing to this discussion; which shall help in enhancing the knowledge of our members.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear All,
I endorse the views expressed by Mr. Raj Kumar Hansdah that we should try to provide correct answers for the queries; rather than attempt at guess-work and confuse the person who seeks guidance.
I have seen people here giving confused answer/reply and also sometimes off the track reply.
Our reply should be clear and to the point and also in line with the rule of law. It is extremely sad if we guide someone knowingly or unknowingly in finding the ways which leads to the exploitation of labor and unfair labor practice.
regards,
Kamal.
From India, Pune
I endorse the views expressed by Mr. Raj Kumar Hansdah that we should try to provide correct answers for the queries; rather than attempt at guess-work and confuse the person who seeks guidance.
I have seen people here giving confused answer/reply and also sometimes off the track reply.
Our reply should be clear and to the point and also in line with the rule of law. It is extremely sad if we guide someone knowingly or unknowingly in finding the ways which leads to the exploitation of labor and unfair labor practice.
regards,
Kamal.
From India, Pune
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