Befor you take any legal action, Is it legal to put CCTV in change room and toilets?
From India, Thane
47From India, Thane
Hello
Installation of CCTV in Change-Rooms and other places of personal use is not right option. None has right to record such footage and watch on monitor. If any action is started on this incidence, and when female-male employees would come to know that CCTVs are installed and their such personal footage are recorded and watched, how they would feel? what they would think about the management? In my opinion, no prudent lady would like such recording.
On the basis of recorded footage, proving of any misconduct is difficult when mixing of video is available.
Such places of personal use should be earmarked and when complaint is coming, action as suggested by our experts should be taken as per definition of misconduct and procedure of law adopted by the establishment irrespective of valid or invalid relations between the two.
Thanks
V K Gupta
From India, Panipat
Installation of CCTV in Change-Rooms and other places of personal use is not right option. None has right to record such footage and watch on monitor. If any action is started on this incidence, and when female-male employees would come to know that CCTVs are installed and their such personal footage are recorded and watched, how they would feel? what they would think about the management? In my opinion, no prudent lady would like such recording.
On the basis of recorded footage, proving of any misconduct is difficult when mixing of video is available.
Such places of personal use should be earmarked and when complaint is coming, action as suggested by our experts should be taken as per definition of misconduct and procedure of law adopted by the establishment irrespective of valid or invalid relations between the two.
Thanks
V K Gupta
From India, Panipat
Dear All,
I think it is better to await Michael George's response to questions raised than making comments based on our perceptions of the situation. For example, I am not sure if a camera is installed within the change room or outside the change room. If it is outside the change room to monitor, who goes in and out and how long they stay there, is it illegal? I would have thought it was necessary if any serious crime were to take place to identify who went in and out.
From United Kingdom
I think it is better to await Michael George's response to questions raised than making comments based on our perceptions of the situation. For example, I am not sure if a camera is installed within the change room or outside the change room. If it is outside the change room to monitor, who goes in and out and how long they stay there, is it illegal? I would have thought it was necessary if any serious crime were to take place to identify who went in and out.
From United Kingdom
Dear all,
My view in the present circumstances are as below:
Taking action with reference to appointment orders, conduct rules, standing orders, Sexual Harrassment Act and so on may not solve the problem.
Try to post/ transfer the people to different Units/ offices / branches /centres /cities, if you wan to keep them in service. Else, watch their alround performance, and frame charges in such a way that are appropriate and acceptable and unquestionable and send them out or any one of them out.
Further the appointment order may have clause of one or two month's notice on either side, without giving any specific reasons. Make use of this clause. In case there is no such clause, try to include the same in future orders and also as addendum to what was given. .
This may solve so many issues and misunderstanding that may arise.
The issue has to be handled tactfully and politely.
From India, Mumbai
My view in the present circumstances are as below:
Taking action with reference to appointment orders, conduct rules, standing orders, Sexual Harrassment Act and so on may not solve the problem.
Try to post/ transfer the people to different Units/ offices / branches /centres /cities, if you wan to keep them in service. Else, watch their alround performance, and frame charges in such a way that are appropriate and acceptable and unquestionable and send them out or any one of them out.
Further the appointment order may have clause of one or two month's notice on either side, without giving any specific reasons. Make use of this clause. In case there is no such clause, try to include the same in future orders and also as addendum to what was given. .
This may solve so many issues and misunderstanding that may arise.
The issue has to be handled tactfully and politely.
From India, Mumbai
With reference to the placing of video cameras;
as is evident from the post; it has been place so that it can view the entrance, and it only records the entry and exit.
It is not placed inside; as is corroborated from the fact given that whatever happened inside the changing room is not known.
From India, Delhi
as is evident from the post; it has been place so that it can view the entrance, and it only records the entry and exit.
It is not placed inside; as is corroborated from the fact given that whatever happened inside the changing room is not known.
From India, Delhi
1. It is not fair to install a CCTV in a private area more so as it is a changing area for both genders.
2. Why was the footage being viewed of a changing area when by default you stumbled upon your man and woman in the same room 'talking to each other in privacy'. Do you have proof of anything else?
3. What is immoral and who defines it
4. What indecency have they committed
5. Were you not encroaching on their privacy or doing some sort of witch-hunting exercise during / after your work hours?
6. Have you the ground to terminate them
7. Even if you do terminate them do you have the chance to face the tribunal
8. What kind of company do you guys work in, where such Talibanisque dictats are imposed and everyone is under the "FBI" scanner
9. Two adults with or without your knowledge, guidance, counselling, mentoring, approval, appointment, permission, are free to talk, kiss, love each other. Who are you to decide how they should live their lives?
10. I hope you are not in HR
11. The way I see it, it can be best described for you and those with you, as VOYEURISM otherwise why would you do what you did and who authorized it
12. If they are unmarried, throw a party and enjoy life... you get invited to their wedding
13. If they are married individually, keep a contraceptive vending machine in your office as you have already installed a CCTV for post-dressing viewership in an area that is very private
14. Get a new job. You can think better.
From India, Mumbai
2. Why was the footage being viewed of a changing area when by default you stumbled upon your man and woman in the same room 'talking to each other in privacy'. Do you have proof of anything else?
3. What is immoral and who defines it
4. What indecency have they committed
5. Were you not encroaching on their privacy or doing some sort of witch-hunting exercise during / after your work hours?
6. Have you the ground to terminate them
7. Even if you do terminate them do you have the chance to face the tribunal
8. What kind of company do you guys work in, where such Talibanisque dictats are imposed and everyone is under the "FBI" scanner
9. Two adults with or without your knowledge, guidance, counselling, mentoring, approval, appointment, permission, are free to talk, kiss, love each other. Who are you to decide how they should live their lives?
10. I hope you are not in HR
11. The way I see it, it can be best described for you and those with you, as VOYEURISM otherwise why would you do what you did and who authorized it
12. If they are unmarried, throw a party and enjoy life... you get invited to their wedding
13. If they are married individually, keep a contraceptive vending machine in your office as you have already installed a CCTV for post-dressing viewership in an area that is very private
14. Get a new job. You can think better.
From India, Mumbai
All said and done,
Any thing to be decided, the course of action etc. would depend what the footage of the CCTV shows. Based on which a preliminary inquiry may be necessary to bring out what exactly has happened to form a prima facie case in the incident. But at the same time I don't think any Staff rules will have such a provision depicting to deal this kind of specific incident, in the absence it may be difficult to proceed further. Much would depend on the past and present of the employees involved. If you ask me it is necessary to establish first what made them to be together for over 10 min. in the dress room. And Michael did not narrate what the rumours go round in their circle about this incident, probably you may take some clue from this. I agree it's unethical to place CCTV cameras in a dressing room of an estt. but what happens in airports and highly secured environment where frisking is compulsory(sometimes allegedly stripped), no cameras allowed there (though male for male and female for female only are frisking) ?
From India, Bangalore
Any thing to be decided, the course of action etc. would depend what the footage of the CCTV shows. Based on which a preliminary inquiry may be necessary to bring out what exactly has happened to form a prima facie case in the incident. But at the same time I don't think any Staff rules will have such a provision depicting to deal this kind of specific incident, in the absence it may be difficult to proceed further. Much would depend on the past and present of the employees involved. If you ask me it is necessary to establish first what made them to be together for over 10 min. in the dress room. And Michael did not narrate what the rumours go round in their circle about this incident, probably you may take some clue from this. I agree it's unethical to place CCTV cameras in a dressing room of an estt. but what happens in airports and highly secured environment where frisking is compulsory(sometimes allegedly stripped), no cameras allowed there (though male for male and female for female only are frisking) ?
From India, Bangalore
Hello Everyone,
Where's Michael George--who posted this thread on 2 May & seems to, either forget about it or doesn't have time to respond to the many queries by the members.
I guess, all of us have done enough brainstorming with LOTS of IFs & BUTs.
All I can say is this: Michael George seems to have asked for justifications for what he wanted to do [sort of pre-decided course of action]--and when that isn't forthcoming from this Forum, he seems to have done the vanishing trick thinking WE don't deserve HIS time any further.
Let's focus our time for better threads of those who really NEED & DESERVE suggestions.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Where's Michael George--who posted this thread on 2 May & seems to, either forget about it or doesn't have time to respond to the many queries by the members.
I guess, all of us have done enough brainstorming with LOTS of IFs & BUTs.
All I can say is this: Michael George seems to have asked for justifications for what he wanted to do [sort of pre-decided course of action]--and when that isn't forthcoming from this Forum, he seems to have done the vanishing trick thinking WE don't deserve HIS time any further.
Let's focus our time for better threads of those who really NEED & DESERVE suggestions.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
I think you should not terminate them directly first have words with them and with your seniors, ask them the reasons why they did that and ask them not to repeat it again and also give them first and last warning otherwise they will be punished with heavy panelty and termination because these people serve threats to organisation working environment.
attribution https://www.citehr.com/492426-male-f...#ixzz30r61jPq9
From India, Haldwani
attribution https://www.citehr.com/492426-male-f...#ixzz30r61jPq9
From India, Haldwani
Sorry to pose this, an after thought-
Are there separate rooms for male and female separately or all have to use one and the same common room and by mistake both entered the room at that time without knowing someone was there in already and took about 10 minutes to find out this.
From India, Bangalore
Are there separate rooms for male and female separately or all have to use one and the same common room and by mistake both entered the room at that time without knowing someone was there in already and took about 10 minutes to find out this.
From India, Bangalore
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