Did you have any clause in the terms of appointment that the employees that during the course of their employment with your organisation shall not take up any other employment whether part time or full time ?
Do you have evidence that the said employees were employed in another organisation without resigning from your organisation ?
If so have you sent them any show cause notice ?
When they were on leave on false grounds and when you were aware that at the same time they were working elsewhere, on what ground you have paid them 15 days salary ?
Please go through carefully the terms and conditions of offer of employment to those two employees and then come back.
From India, Madras
75Do you have evidence that the said employees were employed in another organisation without resigning from your organisation ?
If so have you sent them any show cause notice ?
When they were on leave on false grounds and when you were aware that at the same time they were working elsewhere, on what ground you have paid them 15 days salary ?
Please go through carefully the terms and conditions of offer of employment to those two employees and then come back.
From India, Madras
Dear Mr. Kutty.
Yes, We have a clause in our offer letter as well as appointment letter, that a person working with our company could not indulge in same kind of work as full time or part time or in any other nature without the consent of his or her senior or concerned authority.
No, I do not have any proof as such, but it has been a talk of office now that they have joined together in xyz company. I tried to call you both of them yesterday but they did not replied me. Neither they did replied on mail as well.
I have not paid them 15 days salary. In fact this is my query, as if it is justified to pay them 15 days salary or full month salary on no salary, keeping in mind that the company has already lost two of their prominent clients.
Any kind of advice will be helpful to sought the difference in opinions.
From India, Amritsar
Yes, We have a clause in our offer letter as well as appointment letter, that a person working with our company could not indulge in same kind of work as full time or part time or in any other nature without the consent of his or her senior or concerned authority.
No, I do not have any proof as such, but it has been a talk of office now that they have joined together in xyz company. I tried to call you both of them yesterday but they did not replied me. Neither they did replied on mail as well.
I have not paid them 15 days salary. In fact this is my query, as if it is justified to pay them 15 days salary or full month salary on no salary, keeping in mind that the company has already lost two of their prominent clients.
Any kind of advice will be helpful to sought the difference in opinions.
From India, Amritsar
In addition to what Mr. Kutty said, I would suggest you to please be professional and issue them a warning latter, which is a procedure that we adopt in these kinds of cases. A warning latter which will ask them to return on job (Format can be obtained by using SEARCH option) but never advised them to resign or do any favor to them at your own.
Second, you are a responsible person for HR department and a Manager (Professional) who has to maintain the system and set examples for others, therefore; you should not defy the orders of your Bosses or object and must not have convinced your Boss to pay for 15 days salary to the employees you are talking about.
Third, if you do not have proof of their second employment, you must not claim it yourself or believe on the sources too easily that they are employed elsewhere and have presented false reasons of their absence/leave to you (HR Deptt/Employer), but can adopt the procedure to rectify this information of their SECOND EMPLOYMENT. And, if you found this information correct, you deserve the right to take actions against the employees according to the respective terms and conditions of the appointment latter and can hold the full salary until they report you back or respond against the warning latter.
Issuing them a warning later should be the first step which you have to do on immediate basis. Subsequently you need to hold their all dues/salary until you get their response. And, if found no response from them, can terminate them by following the procedure (Issuing the Termination Latter by stating the reasons) and can go further for legal help if you want, because your companies bearing a huge lose because of them, but you also have to remember that you need to prove before taking actions that these two employees are the reasons of losses what company bearing, and how?
From India, Gurgaon
Second, you are a responsible person for HR department and a Manager (Professional) who has to maintain the system and set examples for others, therefore; you should not defy the orders of your Bosses or object and must not have convinced your Boss to pay for 15 days salary to the employees you are talking about.
Third, if you do not have proof of their second employment, you must not claim it yourself or believe on the sources too easily that they are employed elsewhere and have presented false reasons of their absence/leave to you (HR Deptt/Employer), but can adopt the procedure to rectify this information of their SECOND EMPLOYMENT. And, if you found this information correct, you deserve the right to take actions against the employees according to the respective terms and conditions of the appointment latter and can hold the full salary until they report you back or respond against the warning latter.
Issuing them a warning later should be the first step which you have to do on immediate basis. Subsequently you need to hold their all dues/salary until you get their response. And, if found no response from them, can terminate them by following the procedure (Issuing the Termination Latter by stating the reasons) and can go further for legal help if you want, because your companies bearing a huge lose because of them, but you also have to remember that you need to prove before taking actions that these two employees are the reasons of losses what company bearing, and how?
From India, Gurgaon
Hello Neha,
I guess case is like that Your relative had serve the December month in company after that your Family Member had joined the new company in January month without passing the information / Notice days to your previous employer, after that due to irregular in lots of month company has sent the Termination letter am i right??, Now your relative asking for Salary of December month.....please correct me if i am wrong
Thanking you,
Regards,
Ashish Thakkar
From India, Pune
I guess case is like that Your relative had serve the December month in company after that your Family Member had joined the new company in January month without passing the information / Notice days to your previous employer, after that due to irregular in lots of month company has sent the Termination letter am i right??, Now your relative asking for Salary of December month.....please correct me if i am wrong
Thanking you,
Regards,
Ashish Thakkar
From India, Pune
Now you can initiate disciplinary action against the two erring employees.
Send them a notice by registered post AD or reputed Courier Company and also by e-mail to their mail id directing them to report for duties immediately. Also inform them that their leave application is not considered and leave is not sanctioned.
In the meantime, find out whether they are really working in xyz company during the said leave period through informal sources.
If they do not join immediately, then issue a charge sheet for violating the terms of employment and proceeding on leave without getting leave sanctioned. Based on their reply, enquiry may be conducted and appropriate punishment may be awarded, based on the enquiry findings.
In case your organisation had suffered financial losses or could not adhere to the requirements of the clients and thereby lost your reputation, you can initiate civil case for damages.
For every action you take, you must have evidence and / or reliable witnesses and support of management to you. Otherwise, dont proceed further, just ignore this.
From India, Madras
Send them a notice by registered post AD or reputed Courier Company and also by e-mail to their mail id directing them to report for duties immediately. Also inform them that their leave application is not considered and leave is not sanctioned.
In the meantime, find out whether they are really working in xyz company during the said leave period through informal sources.
If they do not join immediately, then issue a charge sheet for violating the terms of employment and proceeding on leave without getting leave sanctioned. Based on their reply, enquiry may be conducted and appropriate punishment may be awarded, based on the enquiry findings.
In case your organisation had suffered financial losses or could not adhere to the requirements of the clients and thereby lost your reputation, you can initiate civil case for damages.
For every action you take, you must have evidence and / or reliable witnesses and support of management to you. Otherwise, dont proceed further, just ignore this.
From India, Madras
Dear Neha ,
In simple word ,I can say that ,if any person worked for the period ..(whatever may be ) its bounding to the employer to give them payment, up to final resigned or termination date. its employee's rights. Employer has to give him prior intimation to conduct according to company's rules or ready for termination. If employees behaviour doesn't change than employer can easily terminate him on this ground, but he has to pay till the last day of work.
Do all your communication by registered AD post & keep all these records for future..
Regards
Anjani Singh
From India, Mumbai
In simple word ,I can say that ,if any person worked for the period ..(whatever may be ) its bounding to the employer to give them payment, up to final resigned or termination date. its employee's rights. Employer has to give him prior intimation to conduct according to company's rules or ready for termination. If employees behaviour doesn't change than employer can easily terminate him on this ground, but he has to pay till the last day of work.
Do all your communication by registered AD post & keep all these records for future..
Regards
Anjani Singh
From India, Mumbai
There are two different posts on this almost on the same line
For the first post:
This termination appears to be illegal and the HR Department has not advised course of action correctly. A Technical Associate can fall under the definition of workman under ID Act and this person can raise a dispute and demand reinstatement. Management then will realise their mistake and try to settle properly. I always advise simple termination rather than a termination giving reasons. If a Management gives reasons like the given here, it amounts to disciplinary action and a proper enquiry should have been conducted. Your relative can raise a dsipute or send a legal notice claiming compensation for illegal termination and the Company's advocates will give correct advice.
For the Second post
Proving that the persons are working elsewhere is very tough. If you can prove, then you can terminate and even say that you would not pay the salary. However, if a person has worked for n number of days, final settlement form need to be prepared showing the balance payable by the Company and probably you can levy a fine for the same amount. You can not have two punishments and I would just levy a fine. The process will make the people to resign on their own. Alternatively, if the employees have not reported for work and certain amount is payable to them as full and final settlement, I tis particular incident I would ask them to claim legally. If they have gone and worked somewhere without telling the management, you need not feel bad for being tough.
From India, Chennai
For the first post:
This termination appears to be illegal and the HR Department has not advised course of action correctly. A Technical Associate can fall under the definition of workman under ID Act and this person can raise a dispute and demand reinstatement. Management then will realise their mistake and try to settle properly. I always advise simple termination rather than a termination giving reasons. If a Management gives reasons like the given here, it amounts to disciplinary action and a proper enquiry should have been conducted. Your relative can raise a dsipute or send a legal notice claiming compensation for illegal termination and the Company's advocates will give correct advice.
For the Second post
Proving that the persons are working elsewhere is very tough. If you can prove, then you can terminate and even say that you would not pay the salary. However, if a person has worked for n number of days, final settlement form need to be prepared showing the balance payable by the Company and probably you can levy a fine for the same amount. You can not have two punishments and I would just levy a fine. The process will make the people to resign on their own. Alternatively, if the employees have not reported for work and certain amount is payable to them as full and final settlement, I tis particular incident I would ask them to claim legally. If they have gone and worked somewhere without telling the management, you need not feel bad for being tough.
From India, Chennai
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No Due Certificate.doc
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